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#30 by Kojak on 27 Jul, 2010 00:40
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Is this such a good thing? No one should be looking for weight loss but fat loss unless you're some crazy sportsman needing to drop lean weight for a weight class or something but 99 % of the general public want fat loss. Now if you train at a lower intensity using your aerobic system in your optimum fat burning zone you will burn fat but no calories after that. Thats great as those calories if your diet and training is correct can go towards building muscle. It is easily possible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I agree high intensity training is better for weight loss but not fat loss.
Even though you burn more fat going slowly, you still burn a percentage of fat at much faster speeds or intensity. It all boils down to how much energy you expend in totality. For example, if you compare exercising at a slow rate that burns 60 percent fat and 40 percent glucose and a higher intensity or duration that burns only 30 percent fat and 70 percent glucose, you may still burn more fat at the higher intensity.
A typical example. Exercise (1) is the slower 60/40 mix and exercise (2) is the faster, 30/70 mix of fat and glucose fuel.
Walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 180 calories used -- 108 calories of fat burned
Running on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 400 calories used -- 120 calories of fat burned
You can see from this example that the bottom line really is how much energy you expend -- and that is the ultimate fat burning measure. The theoretical fat burning zone is mostly a convenient myth.
This is an example of doing exercise at a Higher Intensity only and not High Intensity Interval Training. Maintaining a higher metabolic rate and burning more calories at rest over a 24 hour period produces Fat loss.
This is how HITT is preformed:
The High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT), also known as the Tabata Protocol, was developed by the head coach of the Japanese speed skating team. It was named after Dr. Izumi Tabata because Tabata and his team (at the National Institute of Fitness and Sports in Kanoya, Japan) studied the speed skating coach's workout to determine the optimum protocol.
A 4 minute cardiovascular training routine has been proven to improve fitness. The whole session last 14 minutes and comprises of a 5 minute warm up, 4 minutes of intense exercise and a 5 minute cool down. The 4 minutes of intense exercise comprises of 8 repeats of 20 seconds of maximum effort work of your selected exercise followed by a recovery of 10 seconds.
This type of exercise is short in total time, so you don't get catabolic and start burning muscle as an energy source.
The Benefits
In Tabata's study, the researchers found that athletes who used the routine five days a week for six weeks improved their maximum aerobic capacity by 14% and improved their anaerobic capacity by 28%. A study of traditional aerobic training of running at 70% of aerobic capacity for 60 minutes for six weeks showed an improvement in aerobic capacity of 9.5% and no effect on anaerobic capacity.
Dr. Tabata's Team found that as well as improving your aerobic and anaerobic capacity it is very effective in lowering the ratio of lean body mass to fat without compromising your muscle size.
How to approach HIIT
The work to rest ratio of the original Tabata Protocol is 2:1, however, this was designed with olympic athletes in mind. A gym user can still attain many of the benefits of the interval training with a change to the ratio. A beginner could start with a ratio of 1:3 and someone who goes to the gym on a regular basis may be about to handle a 2:3 or even a 2:2. Here is an example of a 2:3 ratio Tabata Protocol on a static bike.
Warm up - cycle at 50% max effort for 5 minutes
Sprint for 20 seconds
Easy spin for 30 seconds
Sprint for 20 seconds
Easy spin for 30 seconds
Sprint for 20 seconds
Easy spin for 30 seconds
Cool Down - cycle at 50% max effort for 5 minutes
A professional athlete or an athlete with a number of years experience of training (3-5 times a week) should aim to actually do the original form of the Tabata Protocol. This interval training is incredibly difficult to complete 8 repetitions so for the first time an athlete should do it for 4 repetitions and see how they feel. An athlete can repeat cycles of the intervals a certain number of times. Here is an example of a football player doing the Tabata Protocol at a ratio of 2:1 for 6 repetition with 3 cycles and 1 minute rest between cycles:
Warm up - Jog at 50% max for 5 minutes
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
Cool down - Jog at 50% max for 5 minutes.
The Tabata Protocol can be adjusted to anyone's level and activity (cycling on a static bike, running on a treadmill or track, swimming etc.).
I could hardly believe the benefits of HIIT whan I first discovered it, but I do now.
This is a decent read on the subject. http://www.snay.org/menshealth/forums/hiit-vs-lsd.pdf
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#31 by FightFan on 27 Jul, 2010 05:13
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Even though you burn more fat going slowly, you still burn a percentage of fat at much faster speeds or intensity. It all boils down to how much energy you expend in totality. For example, if you compare exercising at a slow rate that burns 60 percent fat and 40 percent glucose and a higher intensity or duration that burns only 30 percent fat and 70 percent glucose, you may still burn more fat at the higher intensity.
A typical example. Exercise (1) is the slower 60/40 mix and exercise (2) is the faster, 30/70 mix of fat and glucose fuel.
Walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 180 calories used -- 108 calories of fat burned
Running on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 400 calories used -- 120 calories of fat burned
You can see from this example that the bottom line really is how much energy you
I could hardly believe the benefits of HIIT whan I first discovered it, but I do now.
Im a massive advocate for HIIT i probably do with about 60/70 % of my clients. But i dispute the fact you burn fat in this training zone. With HIIT you work in your lactic acid energy sysytem as you go anerobic. Once anaerobic this is when you reach RQ1 you burn zero fat, this is an established scientific fact. The only fuel substrate your body can use is carbohydrates in the form of muscle glycogen, liver glycogen and blood glucose. BY a process of anerobic glycolysis your body uses theses sugars. But anaerobic glycolysis also produces pyruvic acid, so when you slow your heart rate down your body will use this pyruvic acid as a fuel without touching body fat and you continue this cycle, if you dont get enough oxygen/rest on the rest phase the pyruvic acid gets converted to lactic acid.
Now lets look at the example you gave which is completely correct. If you work at a higher rate of exercise such as jogging without going anerobic then yes you will burn more calories and more fat even though at a lower percentage. so
Walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 180 calories used -- 108 calories of fat burned
Running on a treadmill for 30 minutes -- 400 calories used -- 120 calories of fat burned
As a personal trainer i look at that and think great I can burn 108 calories of fat and only a total of 180 calories. That means the rest of the calories they eat will go towards building lean tissue or energy for power or strength routines as 90% of my clients are one of these programs.
Now by working harder i.e running im only burning 12 extra calories, 120 from fat but 400 total. Where is the other 280 calories going to come from? Again carbohydrates from muscle, liver and blood sugar if I dont have enough carbohydrates my body is going to turn to other fuels such as protein which is broken down into amino acids if I have no protein it will turn to muscle tissue remember the fat is broken down into free fatty acid is already accounted for.
So if I do HIIT its usually to increase their lactic threshold so I make sure I do it on a day where this is the only exercise they do and make sure they have plenty of carbs before hand so they wont dip into protein stores.
As for the fat burn zone being a myth i agree to some extent. People do have a training zone that is optomol for fat burn and you have to be training aerobically so at a lower level. The guidlines of 60 % of your max heartrate is false as fat burn zone and heart rate max are totally independant of each other and secondly the arbitary calculation for your maximum heartrate 220 - your age s also rubbish as age has nothing at all to do with fitness. The only way to find true heartrate max is doing a true VO2 test and going until you pass out.
No ever comes to me for weight loss or to burn calories, accept in rare circumstances i give them fat loss -
#32 by Kojak on 27 Jul, 2010 09:50
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Regardless of the energy source during the exercise the net result of using this form of training is a greater loss in body fat and retention of lean mass. Not only can you retain more muscle fiber, you can actually gain muscle using the HIIT method.
If your metabolism increases, which it does using this method and your caloric intake is set at a level to maintain lean body mass, the extra calories burned during the exercise and at rest comes from body fat. This is why you see greater fat loss with this program.
Dr. Tabata's Team found that as well as improving your aerobic and anaerobic capacity it is very effective in lowering the ratio of lean body mass to fat without compromising your muscle size.
This has been proven at many other Universities.
Don't get me wrong, tradition cardio, combined with resistance training, and proper nutrition set at a level to meet ones caloric needs to support lean muscle mass retention will produce great results in fat loss. Your training to become certified as a trainer is beneficial and your clients will love the results.
I 'm certain what ever method you use you will find success with your clients and that is what counts the most.
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#33 by texanron on 28 Jul, 2010 08:07
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Allright Kojak and FightFan, I have a question for both of you.
Cardio and strength training on the same day, does it matter if you do one before the other? I currently do both 3 days in a row then a day of strictly cardio. Followed by another 2 days in a row of both followed by a day off. I strength train for 25 minutes, stretch for 10 minutes and then wrap things up with 30 minutes of running/fast walking on the treadmill.
I'm trying to mantain the muscle I do have while losing body fat. -
#34 by FightFan on 28 Jul, 2010 09:42
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In my opinion I would always do cardio LAST.
Firstly you dont want to run/ do cardio first because you deplete your carbohydrate stores and blood glucose so you will have less strength because you have less fuel for the workout and you will release cortisol which blunts testosterone and potentially breaks down muscle.
Your brain and CNS need atleast 100 grams of carbohydrates to run efficently so if you use this up first you are more likey to be less focused thus increasing the risk of injury by making a mistake, it will also affect your balance, concentration and motor skills.
By doing weights first and cardio second you are using your energy systems in the correct order so by depleting your glycogen during weight training, when you do your cardio (low intensity) you switch to your aerobic system and will predominantly use fat for fuel rather then carbs.
If you were to do high intensity cardio such as sprints or HIIT I would do that on days where you dont weight train and make sure you have eaten a meal before the session -
#35 by Kojak on 28 Jul, 2010 11:01
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Allright Kojak and FightFan, I have a question for both of you.
Cardio and strength training on the same day, does it matter if you do one before the other? I currently do both 3 days in a row then a day of strictly cardio. Followed by another 2 days in a row of both followed by a day off. I strength train for 25 minutes, stretch for 10 minutes and then wrap things up with 30 minutes of running/fast walking on the treadmill.
I'm trying to mantain the muscle I do have while losing body fat.
Ditto what FightFan said. Do your cardio after your strength training and get in a good snack, meal, or protein shake within an hour of your work out to feed those muscles and help prevent against muscle loss.
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#36 by texanron on 11 Aug, 2010 14:19
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Looking for advice on what muscle groups to work out together or not to work out together.
Currently I go with the following: Day 1 - Legs and Cardio. Day 2 - Chest, Biceps and Triceps and Cardio. Day 3 - Back and Shoulders and Cardio. Day 4 - Cardio only. Day 5 off. Start cycle over.
Any thoughts?
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#37 by Jemig on 12 Aug, 2010 15:19
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Looking for advice on what muscle groups to work out together or not to work out together.
Currently I go with the following: Day 1 - Legs and Cardio. Day 2 - Chest, Biceps and Triceps and Cardio. Day 3 - Back and Shoulders and Cardio. Day 4 - Cardio only. Day 5 off. Start cycle over.
Any thoughts?
I don't think it makes much difference if you do certain groups one day and other the next. All muscles need a workout and working on your upper and lower body at the same day should also work.
I think it's just a matter of how much time you want to spent.
E.g. I go to the gym twice a week and to the full circle of strenght training, usually followed by cardio (static bike or treadmill).
The other days of the week I go running or swimming and once or twice simple pushup.
For me, that works just fine. -
#38 by bartman on 12 Aug, 2010 16:15
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I was up to 290lbs after Christmas last year, slowly creeping up in weight. I went on Dr Atkins diet, basicly low carb high protien diet. I am down to 240 now and am still on it. I don't want to be skinny but I would like to get down to 200-220. I will say after being on this diet since the beginning of this year, I don't get hungry like I use to and feel a lot better.
I found starting the diet, I was totally addicted to suger. I had withdrawl, headaches, for the first 3 or 4 days. I think our food laced with sugar and high fruictos corn syrup is addicting people thus the overweight problems of our nation and the diabetic issues because of wild swings of insulin pumped into our bodies. That is just my opinion. Now, I am not addicted to suger, I don't crave it anymore. My only problem now is once I quit the atkins diet, I will start a more normal style diet like southbeach or zone for the rest of my life. But I don't know how I can not eat suger and HF Corn Syrup because almost all foods have it in it. I guess I would worry about that when I get there.
Dr Atkins diet works very well, the only problem, it cannot help you with your beer belly, because you cannot drink alcohol. It turns to suger in your blood stream. Good luck on that though. -
#39 by Razor X on 13 Aug, 2010 20:39
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Looking for advice on what muscle groups to work out together or not to work out together.
Currently I go with the following: Day 1 - Legs and Cardio. Day 2 - Chest, Biceps and Triceps and Cardio. Day 3 - Back and Shoulders and Cardio. Day 4 - Cardio only. Day 5 off. Start cycle over.
Any thoughts?
Sounds like a good regimen to me. You're not working out the same muscle groups on consecutive days, which is good because they need a chance to recover. Are you doing a variety of cardio exercises? You'll have better results if you do. -
#40 by texanron on 16 Aug, 2010 07:55
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Looking for advice on what muscle groups to work out together or not to work out together.
Currently I go with the following: Day 1 - Legs and Cardio. Day 2 - Chest, Biceps and Triceps and Cardio. Day 3 - Back and Shoulders and Cardio. Day 4 - Cardio only. Day 5 off. Start cycle over.
Any thoughts?
Sounds like a good regimen to me. You're not working out the same muscle groups on consecutive days, which is good because they need a chance to recover. Are you doing a variety of cardio exercises? You'll have better results if you do.
I switch up the cardio by using a treadmill or a elliptical machine. On the treadmill I'll vary the speed and incline. On the elliptical I'll vary the resistance level.
Another thing that confuses me is supplements. There are so many options out there its easy to get lost. The only thing I use right now is BSN Syntha 6. I take 1/2 a scoop with water before I go to the gym. 100 calories/ 3g fat/ 7.5g carbs/ 11g protein. I eat breakfast as I can after working out usually within about 30 minutes of finishing. -
#41 by FightFan on 16 Aug, 2010 08:23
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I wouldnt get too bogged down in supplements, make sure your diet is spot on first, as for protein powder Reflex natural whey is one of the better ones, other then that I'd take a good quality multivitamin and some essential fatty acids with solgar being one of the better ones but they are quite expensive.
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#42 by tomgallagher on 16 Aug, 2010 09:48
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I know it is sort of self explanatory but could you guys explain "eating clean" to me in a little more detail.
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#43 by Magoo on 16 Aug, 2010 13:21
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Tom , I believe they mean clean up your diet. Like no junk food and to eat nutrious foods in stead.
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#44 by FightFan on 16 Aug, 2010 14:14
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Yeah eating clean refers to cutting out refined carbohydrates such as white bread and sugar, cutting down on saturated fats so watch the butter and cheese and fatty meats eat more vegetables. Drink more water etc But everything in moderation a burger or few slices of pizza once a week isnt going to hurt if you're eating well rest of the time but now i see people eating fast food not just every day but 2/3 times a day its
