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#15 by tomgallagher on 10 Oct, 2011 17:26
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I refer to them as Black. I am never referred to as European-American but White.
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#16 by BillOnBass on 10 Oct, 2011 18:08
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I refer to them as Black. I am never referred to as European-American but White.
Ditto. If you're a citizen of the U.S. you should just be classified as American (unless you're dual citizen or something). No prefix.
Wouldn't you find it ignorant and maybe offensive if you were dark-skinned and born in Haiti, for example, and called African-American? How about if you were light-skinned and born in South Africa and referred to as European-American? What if you had Asian ancestry and were born right here in the U.S. and still called Asian-American? I'm all for people identifying with their ancestry, but I think racial qualifiers attached to the term American is uncalled for.
Racial semantics is a tricky subject.
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#17 by Razor X on 10 Oct, 2011 18:08
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As for my friend, I dont think he meant he was insulted by being referred to as African or American as such. I got the impression he was more insulted by the ignorance of the people he was talking to. They didnt seem to understand that people of colour (another term I hate, because we all have a colour) could be referred to as anything other than African American, which I find kind of dumb, because in my own living memory, I can think of lots of terms which have been used. Some respectful, others less so...
This is where political correctness leads us. Everyone is afraid of using the wrong term. And while some terms that have fallen from favor were clearly offensive, there are others that have been discontinued and I don't think anyone has a clue as to why.
And while it wouldn't have helped with your friend's example, I do wish that we on this side of the pond would just get into the habit of referring to ourselves as Americans and let it go at that. All these modifiers and hyphens serve no purpose but to divide people into different factions. -
#18 by Razor X on 10 Oct, 2011 18:09
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[ I'm all for people identifying with their ancestry, but I think racial qualifiers attached to the term American is uncalled for.
Racial semantics is a tricky subject.
Looks like we both posted the same thought at the same time. Great minds and all that ....
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#19 by Mike on 10 Oct, 2011 18:14
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When I hear the term African American to me it just means dark colored mutt.I had a teacher that was a proud Sudanese-American. Most of the 'real' African people I talk to, they refer to themselves as people from their country (Sudan, South Africa, Guinea, etc.). I just call them black and refer to myself as white, I prefer not to use caucasian because to me I think of the term in the way that caucasians are from the Caucas mountains which are mostly darker skinned anyway.
As for me, I am an American mutt. I am mostly German with some Scottish, Welsh, and flat out Brittish. My dad was 3/4 German, 1/4 Scottish and my mom was 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Brittish, and 1/2 German. The funny thing is when folks see me they think I am more from Ukraine/eastern Europe.
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#20 by Razor X on 10 Oct, 2011 18:26
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. I am mostly German with some Scottish, Welsh, and flat out Brittish. My dad was 3/4 German, 1/4 Scottish and my mom was 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Brittish, and 1/2 German.
Since Chavster is still apparently counting sheep, I'll just jump in and point out that "British" isn't a race any more than "American" is. British is an all-encompassing term for anyone of English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish origin, though most nationalists in Northern Ireland will object to the term. So I'm assuming your mom was probably 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 English and 1/2 German?
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#21 by Mike on 10 Oct, 2011 18:44
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. I am mostly German with some Scottish, Welsh, and flat out Brittish. My dad was 3/4 German, 1/4 Scottish and my mom was 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Brittish, and 1/2 German.
Since Chavster is still apparently counting sheep, I'll just jump in and point out that "British" isn't a race any more than "American" is. British is an all-encompassing term for anyone of English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish origin, though most nationalists in Northern Ireland will object to the term. So I'm assuming your mom was probably 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 English and 1/2 German?
That is what I meant, I always get the term "British" and "English" mixed up -
#22 by tomgallagher on 10 Oct, 2011 18:59
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. I am mostly German with some Scottish, Welsh, and flat out Brittish. My dad was 3/4 German, 1/4 Scottish and my mom was 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Brittish, and 1/2 German.
Since Chavster is still apparently counting sheep, I'll just jump in and point out that "British" isn't a race any more than "American" is. British is an all-encompassing term for anyone of English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish origin, though most nationalists in Northern Ireland will object to the term. So I'm assuming your mom was probably 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 English and 1/2 German?
That is what I meant, I always get the term "British" and "English" mixed up
It is confusing. England=English, Scotland=Scottish, Wales=Welsh. The whole island is Britain and all 3 can call themselves British if they like. Now Northern Ireland is a different deal. I personally feel that there is two islands, one named Ireland and one named Britain and the folks on the one island should be called British and the folks from the other island should be called Irish but maybe that's too simple. -
#23 by Laser Man on 10 Oct, 2011 19:36
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It's a good observation about racial semantics being tricky. This thread got started because of someone being referred to by a term that really is a racial generalization. That's really the problem - we can't seem to find a good way of describing people of different skin colors.
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#24 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 19:48
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. I am mostly German with some Scottish, Welsh, and flat out Brittish. My dad was 3/4 German, 1/4 Scottish and my mom was 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Brittish, and 1/2 German.
Since Chavster is still apparently counting sheep, I'll just jump in and point out that "British" isn't a race any more than "American" is. British is an all-encompassing term for anyone of English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish origin, though most nationalists in Northern Ireland will object to the term. So I'm assuming your mom was probably 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 English and 1/2 German?
That is what I meant, I always get the term "British" and "English" mixed up
It is confusing. England=English, Scotland=Scottish, Wales=Welsh. The whole island is Britain and all 3 can call themselves British if they like. Now Northern Ireland is a different deal. I personally feel that there is two islands, one named Ireland and one named Britain and the folks on the one island should be called British and the folks from the other island should be called Irish but maybe that's too simple.
Not too simple, but not accurate
Just like Mike ^^, you're confusing race and nationality 
Politically, the people of England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands are British.
Racially and genetically, the people of Northern Ireland are Irish, in the same way that people in Cork or Dublin are Irish.
As X Man mentioned, 'British' isnt a race. English is a race, Scottish is a race, Irish is a race, and Welsh is a race, but British is an umbrella term for citizens of the UK, and that includes Northern Ireland. From a UK perspective, anyone born and raised in Belfast (for example) is referred to as an Irishman, but when it comes to matters of state, the same person is British.
There is also another native race within the UK, which is Cornish. Welsh and Cornish are the two most medieval races within the UK.
No country that has been 'produced' from an amalgamation of other countries or territories or races can be described as having its own race. Places like the UK, US, the former Yugoslavia, Russia (etc) dont have a defined race, and the same is said for countries which have experienced mass immigration, such as Australia, New Zealand, etc.
There are pockets of 'pureness' within each of these countries, obviously, such as French Canadian, however the term 'French Canadian' in reality is applied to Canadian people who speak French as their native language, rather than to their race, because pure 'French Canadians' are in fact racially and genetically French. The islands of St Pierre and Miquelon (just off the coast of Canada) are also purely French, in spite of living off the coast of North America. Many people living in a town in Argentina (I cant remember the name of the town) are purely Welsh, as their bloodline has never been mixed with either the Spanish population of Argentina or the native population.
The thing to remember is that race isnt defined by politics, its defined by DNA, which is why anyone with an Irish bloodline is Irish rather than Mongolian-Irish or Irish-Brazillian. -
#25 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 19:49
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Many people living in a town in Argentina (I cant remember the name of the town) are purely Welsh, as their bloodline has never been mixed with either the Spanish population of Argentina or the native population.
Puerto Madryn. -
#26 by MikeM on 10 Oct, 2011 20:10
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As X Man mentioned, 'British' isnt a race. English is a race, Scottish is a race, Irish is a race, and Welsh is a race, but British is an umbrella term for citizens of the UK, and that includes Northern Ireland.
In American English, these are ethnicities, not races. -
#27 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 20:13
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In American English, these are ethnicities, not races.
Perhaps, but America is just one country out of many, and just about everywhere else, they're races, as defined by their DNA. America is also a country that uses the term African American, which is also totally inaccurate in the overwhelming number of cases.
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#28 by Mike on 10 Oct, 2011 20:15
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So a slight way to relate over here in the states are the Native Americans. They are all divided into various tribes. Most of the tribes have different languages and cultures (some nomadic, some stationary) and they even vary within their skeletal strucures.
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#29 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 20:21
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They're different races. There will be some similarities between some of them (ie, two tribes living close together are more than likely to be the same race), whereas one tribe based in the midwest is likely to be a different race from a tribe based on the west coast.
As I said, race is defined by a person's genes, not by which passport they happen to carry at any given moment.
From my viewpoint the '-American' thing has two uses. In the case of black people, its used to be politically correct. In the case of others (ie Irish-American or Italian-American) its a nod to the fact that they're equally proud of being a US citizen as they are being Italian. I can understand that, but I still have trouble understanding African American. Partially because American isnt a race, and partially because there are so many races within Africa that to describe someone as 'African American' does an injustice to a whole lot of people.