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An Americanism by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 13:21
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I've been speaking to a friend of mine, and there's a phrase neither of us sure we understand, at least from an American's point of view (generally speaking obviously).
Oprah Winfrey is African American. Barack Obama is African American (I think). Whoopi Goldberg is African American. Condolotsateetha Rice is African American.
What does 'African American' actually mean, de facto rather than de jure? I can look this up on Wikipedia, but I'm interested in the de facto, and Wikipedia will probably only give me the de jure. -
#1 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 13:38
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p.s. i'll tell you why I'm asking, because I'm going to bed shortly. I cant get the internet to work properly tonight, I'm not feeling well, and there's nothing on tv.
A friend of mine works for the government (UK rather than US) and he just got back from a 3-day trip to Washington DC. He said that on two occasions, he was referred to as 'African American', in spite of the fact that he's neither African or American. He said he pointed these two facts out to the people concerned, but they said they wouldnt know what else to refer to him as, because 'thats what he is...African American'. He said he once again pointed out that he isnt African (his family is from Oman), that he isnt American (he's British). One of them retorted that 'everyone with your skin colour is African American'. He said he felt quite upset and insulted by that (he's quite proudly British, and his heritage is Asian)
How can someone who is neither African or American be referred to African American? Was he just talking to two particularly stupid people? Is African American the only term used for those of us with a darker skin colour?
I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just trying to understand what the phrase means in reality. -
#2 by TheSlyBear on 10 Oct, 2011 14:11
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Well, US citizens of color are referred to a African Americans as they are Americans, and can (mostly) trace their heritage to Africa at some point in their lineage.
However, it seems to have become the "term du jour" as other terms such as black, negro, and others that I'm too polite to use have fallen out of favor. And "person of color" seems too pretentious and awkward.
So I'm sure that their was no intent to insult your friend -- it's just that there doesn't seem to be another currently acceptable term.
I know we have some bald brethren who are "of color" ... it'd be interesting to hear your take on the whole thing. -
#3 by D.A.L.U.I. on 10 Oct, 2011 14:22
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Just to add to Sly Bear's explanation, they adopted what had long before been used for American's of different national backgrounds, Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. It's just lingo. And as with all lingo, it morphs into a general description--that's what your friend experienced nothing more.
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#4 by Laser Man on 10 Oct, 2011 15:05
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Yes, the term is used to denote American of African ancestry. In the same vein, an Asian American is an American of Asian ancestry, although I know many people from the Indian subcontinent that bristle at being called Asian American because the term in their view means east Asian.
I would hope the people your friend dealt with weren't intending to insult him, although the way they put it sounds rather clumsy. -
#5 by schro on 10 Oct, 2011 15:06
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I'm German-Lithuanian American, but that's not included on any census forms, loan application, or any type of enrollment forms I've completed.
I'm considering legal action.
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#6 by Laser Man on 10 Oct, 2011 15:18
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I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)! -
#7 by Chavster on 10 Oct, 2011 15:21
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I find the term a little confusing, because (for example) if Freddie Mercury were still alive and if he were to move to the US and become a US citizen, I doubt he'd be called 'African American' by anyone, even though he was born and raised in Africa (Zanzibar, to be precise), but he was as white as a sheet, in spite of having Indian parents. Same for Pik Botha and FW de Klerk (South African politicians), and millions of others, yet if they became US citizens, they would in fact be African Americans. So I'm assuming 'African American' = the B word (and I'm not using the B word in case its not politically correct in America, the way it is here. Nobody here would call themselves African British, for example. The B word is the word used by everyone, whether they're B or W)
As for Indians (Calcutta rather than Apache), its the same here, they dont like being referred to as Asians, because Asian generally refers to people from the far east. Also, many native Israelis feel insulted when they're called Asians, even though thats what they are. Same said for people in Cyprus. The people of Malta refer to themselves as European, whereas geographically, Malta is a part of Africa.
As for my friend, I dont think he meant he was insulted by being referred to as African or American as such. I got the impression he was more insulted by the ignorance of the people he was talking to. They didnt seem to understand that people of colour (another term I hate, because we all have a colour) could be referred to as anything other than African American, which I find kind of dumb, because in my own living memory, I can think of lots of terms which have been used. Some respectful, others less so...
And as far as the Italian/Irish/German thing... I also dont understand Italian American (etc). Genetically speaking, its possible to differentiate between an Italian and, for example, a Norwegian. Italian is a defined race, as is Irish / German / Norwegian etc. Yet 'American' isnt a race, its just a nationality made up of many other races.
Anyway, I guess I'll just add this to my 'one more thing that doesnt make any sense to me' list
I'm going back to bed now. I only got up for a pee
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#8 by Razor X on 10 Oct, 2011 15:24
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I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
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#9 by D.A.L.U.I. on 10 Oct, 2011 16:31
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Sorry, it's pretty obvious that someone in your lineage messed around with the Vikings when they took their Irish "vacation!"I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
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#10 by schro on 10 Oct, 2011 16:42
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Sorry, it's pretty obvious that someone in your lineage messed around with the Vikings when they took their Irish "vacation!"I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
ok. -
#11 by TheSlyBear on 10 Oct, 2011 16:50
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I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
Indeed! 100% pure French Canadian on both sides going back as far as I've traced. -
#12 by Razor X on 10 Oct, 2011 16:51
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Sorry, it's pretty obvious that someone in your lineage messed around with the Vikings when they took their Irish "vacation!"I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
But once type was established there were enough consistency for several successive generations so that meets the definition of "pure breeding.";
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#13 by D.A.L.U.I. on 10 Oct, 2011 17:14
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But once type was established there were enough consistency for several successive generations so that meets the definition of "pure breeding.";
That sounds like canine breeders talk
. Then there are the comments of the late Winston Churchill in Vol. I of The History of the English-Speaking People. We lost that series to Katrina, but I seem to remember a comment in there about mongrels.
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#14 by tomgallagher on 10 Oct, 2011 17:23
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Sorry, it's pretty obvious that someone in your lineage messed around with the Vikings when they took their Irish "vacation!"I'm German-Lithuanian American
Only two ethnicities? That qualifies you as almost pure-blooded. I count at least four in my lineage (Irish, English, German, and Italian)!
Some of us actually are pure-blooded.
I think saint is referring to your red Van Dyke. The Vikings or Norsemen is exactly where we Irish get our distinctive red hair.