Sly Bald Guys Forum

Discussions About Being Bald => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 10:57:03 AM

Title: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
Lets say, just as an example, Barack Obama and George Dubya Bush meet up one night and they go to the Olive Garden for some spaghetti with three cheese marinara, salad, and breadsticks.

The next morning, news headlines (newspapers and online) might look like this:

OBAMA, BUSH EAT SPAGHETTI AT OLIVE GARDEN

Whats with the comma? Any time I read an American newspaper or website, and they're talking about two or more things/people, they never say:

OBAMA AND BUSH EAT SPAGHETTI, or BUSH & OBAMA EAT SPAGHETTI.... its always BUSH, OBAMA EAT SPAGHETTI

Who taught you people that? Its awful! :P :D  :P

(I do realise there are more important issues in the world. I'm just killing time before dinner)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 21, 2011, 11:00:03 AM
It's just something we do to piss off the Brits.   >:D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:00:57 AM
It works!
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 11:19:10 AM
Probably the same guy that taught you Brits to begin every other sentence with "right".
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:20:20 AM
Do we?

For example, 'right its really warm today'?

:o
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Y'all sure do get your money's worth out of that little old word.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:23:00 AM
I've never noticed. Its not a way I begin my own sentences. Can you give me an example? A real one that is :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 11:27:08 AM
Right. just listen to the BBC shows.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 21, 2011, 11:28:28 AM
Can't say I've ever noticed with the possible exception of certain charcters on EastEnders.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Sly Red on September 21, 2011, 11:28:39 AM
OK, here's my take:  If it's in a newspaper it's simply a method they use for a terse headline.  Nothing more.  Anyone else agree, disagree?

Red
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 21, 2011, 11:29:34 AM
OK, here's my take:  If it's in a newspaper it's simply a method they use for a terse headline.  Nothing more.  Anyone else agree, disagree?

Red

Agree.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 11:30:21 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:32:47 AM
I dont know what that means :o
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Sly Red on September 21, 2011, 11:36:57 AM
Terse as in short and concise.  You've just spoiled my perception that Brits have better vocabularies than Americans.  :'(

I'm shattered!

Red
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:40:05 AM
I know what terse means, you young whippersnapper you :D but I was trying to think of 'terse' in conjuction with my spaghetti analogy :D

I dont think it matters whether the headline is suppose to be terse or not...its just that comma thing, it seems to be used all the time, and I just dont get it :)

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 11:48:33 AM
Tom and Dick and Harry and Paul and John and Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.

Tom, Dick, Harry, Paul, John, Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: MikeM on September 21, 2011, 11:49:03 AM
Yes, T to the E to the R, S, E.

Back when newspapers were paper, they had to worry about the size of headlines. That led to all sorts conventions like the one you mention. Ever notice the use of short words like "tots" instead of "children" and stuff like that?
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:51:21 AM
Tom and Dick and Harry and Paul and John and Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.

Tom, Dick, Harry, Paul, John, Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.


But Tom, that bears no relation to what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about TWO PEOPLE, or TWO THINGS, not a whole string of them.

Obviously if you're talking about 23,000 people, you're going to use a comma, rather than 'and' in between each one.

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 11:53:22 AM
Yes, T to the E to the R, S, E.

Back when newspapers were paper, they had to worry about the size of headlines. That led to all sorts conventions like the one you mention. Ever notice the use of short words like "tots" instead of "children" and stuff like that?

That doesnt explain why OBAMA, BUSH is used rather than OBAMA & BUSH though. I agree about space, but the size difference between , and & is utterly minute.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: MikeM on September 21, 2011, 11:58:44 AM
Yes it does and no it isn't.

<= MikeM, sons in Central Park
<= MikeM & sons in Central Park
<= MikeM and his children in Central Park

Even pull a stunt like setting the text in Times Roman or something else designed to cram a lot of text into narrow columns.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 12:00:04 PM
Oh. I wonder why newspapers all over the English speaking world, with the possible exception of those in Canada, dont do the same thing. Maybe they had wider sheets of paper ;)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 12:04:04 PM
Anyway it doesnt matter, I was just curious :) Its one of those little peculiarities that makes America, America! A little like 'awesome' and just about everyone loving Oprah for some unknown reason.

I'm going to get some dinner. See you all later  :@`
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 12:06:10 PM
Tom and Dick and Harry and Paul and John and Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.

Tom, Dick, Harry, Paul, John, Sam and Bill ate at the Olive Garden.


But Tom, that bears no relation to what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about TWO PEOPLE, or TWO THINGS, not a whole string of them.

Obviously if you're talking about 23,000 people, you're going to use a comma, rather than 'and' in between each one.



Oh OK, so this is the rule of two. I didn't know that. I'll have to check out The Guardian to see exactly  what you mean.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 12:08:42 PM
Well check out my opening post, and you'll see the example I gave.

Obviously if you have lots of people going for spaghetti, you wouldnt say Sue and John and Daisy and Margaret and Bill and Dan and Tarquin... but if there's only two people, I dont get the comma thing.

As I said, it doesnt matter, its just a little bit of fun :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 12:13:14 PM
Well check out my opening post, and you'll see the example I gave.

Obviously if you have lots of people going for spaghetti, you wouldnt say Sue and John and Daisy and Margaret and Bill and Dan and Tarquin... but if there's only two people, I dont get the comma thing.

As I said, it doesnt matter, its just a little bit of fun :D

Right, we'll leave it at you just don't get it.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 21, 2011, 12:15:18 PM
I dont know why you're feeling the need to be so antagonistic and snotty today. One day you're like chalk, the next you're like cheese. One day up, one day down. One day pleasant, one day sour. Maybe there's a reason for that, but thankfully I dont need to be surrounded by it in person.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 21, 2011, 01:18:08 PM
While we are on the subject of grammar, American or otherwise, what does "Bollocks" mean in Brit speak.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 21, 2011, 01:36:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Mikekoz13 on September 21, 2011, 06:19:51 PM
I come with the truth on this topic.........

Most of the mainstream media in the USA is a bunch of pompous, bloated know it alls that think they know more than the general citizenry. In reality they are a bunch of barely educated sheep. You won't see that type of nonsense coming from well educated Americans.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Blitzed on September 22, 2011, 05:32:08 AM
Yes, T to the E to the R, S, E.

Back when newspapers were paper, they had to worry about the size of headlines. That led to all sorts conventions like the one you mention. Ever notice the use of short words like "tots" instead of "children" and stuff like that?
Exactly plus in the day when type was set by hand,  typesetters had learned by instinct how many letters would fit on a line.  Also to endlessly insert an "and" between two names makes it more difficult to read. We tend to forget that diacritical markings, such as commas, exist to give a nuance in the reader's mind as to how the line they are reading would actually sound. 
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: schro on September 22, 2011, 07:42:01 AM

.....
Who taught you people that? Its awful! :P :D  :P

(I do realise there are more important issues in the world. I'm just killing time before dinner)

What's awful is realize being spelled with an S.  :*))
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: baldjoeg on September 22, 2011, 08:30:54 AM
Great picture Razor. I like it
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: baldjoeg on September 22, 2011, 08:35:22 AM
I agree with Mikekoz. Interesting discussion though.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Slynito on September 22, 2011, 11:54:09 AM
Seems to me when I speak with Britz...they use a lot of adjectives, more than needed imho.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 22, 2011, 02:08:09 PM
I agree with Mikekoz. Interesting discussion though.

I thought so too :)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Tyler on September 22, 2011, 03:42:19 PM
Eats, shoots and leaves.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: 120inna55 on September 24, 2011, 12:46:22 PM
I dont know why you're feeling the need to be so antagonistic and snotty today. One day you're like chalk, the next you're like cheese. One day up, one day down. One day pleasant, one day sour. Maybe there's a reason for that, but thankfully I dont need to be surrounded by it in person.
I hope you're kidding.  I don't really see anything antagonistic, per se, about the responses thus far.  I just see good natured ribbing in response to a light-hearted original post.  Whether your original post was intended to be a light-hearted poking fun at a culture's way of doing things, or a simple query with expectation of data, cannot be confirmed by dissecting said post.  That said, one might expect, in the presence of a public forum such as this, at least some degree of retort.

Now, on a personal note...

Despite my being native Texan (many of us cling closer to our Texas heritage more so than that of our nation), the use of the commas as indicated in headlines has always seemed awkward to me, and thus counters the presumed purpose which is to make it more concise.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Nope, unfortunately I wasnt kidding, but I also wasnt referring to the replies just on this thread. Tom and I rarely go a day without fighting :) but hopefully its in a friendly way rather than an 'I dislike you' kind of way. It certainly isnt that from my side of things.

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Arnie on September 24, 2011, 01:49:33 PM
You know what really chaps my hide?

When people don't use a comma after the second person before the "and" in a group of three or more.

Tyler, Schro and BaldRob walk into a bar...  :Xo!

Tyler, Schro, and BaldRob walk into a bar...  :)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 01:52:53 PM
Im more than happy to be proved wrong, but I have a feeling the version that pisses you off is the correct one (although I tend to use the one that doesnt piss you off)

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 02:10:20 PM
Im more than happy to be proved wrong, but I have a feeling the version that pisses you off is the correct one (although I tend to use the one that doesnt piss you off)



I believe that the second comma is known as the Oxford comma.  I was always taught that it was the correct usage, just as Arnie said.  I also thought it was standard usage in British English.  However, more often than not it is omitted in common usage.  Both ways seem to be considered acceptable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Laser Man on September 24, 2011, 02:19:15 PM
Razor is right - it's known as the Oxford comma.  It was taught as the correct punctuation when I went to school, but that was long enough ago that the rules have changed / slipped.  The comma before the "and" was meant to delineate a series of individual items from a grouping of what came before and after the "and". 

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: BReady on September 24, 2011, 02:24:36 PM
I personally did not use a comma just before the conjunction.  After reading this thread and about the serial comma, I can see why that can be a problem.

As for the OP's question about the lack of "and" in the headline.  I always thought weird sounding headlines were for the sake of making it short as possible.

Dog Bites Mailman (instead of A Dog Bites the Mailman) is an example
I guess Bush, Obama eat at the Olive Garden would be the same?

...and here is the first thing I thought of when it was mentioned that Brit's use the word "right" a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK17r6hN96k&feature=player_detailpage#t=5s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK17r6hN96k&feature=player_detailpage#t=5s)

Shawn says, "Right!" just before he explains his plan.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 02:36:06 PM
Whatever happened to the possessive apostrophe in the English language.
a. That is Franks' automobile.

Nowadays it always seems to be written,
b. That is Frank's automobile.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 02:37:38 PM
Whatever happened to the posessive apostrophe in the English language.
a. That is Franks' automobile.

Nowadays it always seems to be written,
b. That is Frank's automobile.

The apostrophe after the S (example A) is plural possesive and Example B is singular possessive.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Here's an interesting (at least I think so) article on the spelling differences between British and American English and why the deviations occurred:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_spelling

My thoughts have always been that if one really wants to get technical on which is correct, then we should probably defer to the British usage -- it is, after all, their language.  But I must admit, that while I don't object to an extra "U" after an "O" or an "S" instead of a "Z", certain words just don't look right to me.  For example, I can't get used to "tyre", "kerb", or "cheque".  (Note my use of the Oxford comma there.)   ;)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Laser Man on September 24, 2011, 02:41:45 PM
The bigger problem seems to be in the use of an apostrophe to make a word plural, for example: Apple's are $1 per pound.  This seems to have become common usage.  

People also seem to struggle with "its" versus "it's"...
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 02:42:43 PM
Whatever happened to the posessive apostrophe in the English language.
a. That is Franks' automobile.

Nowadays it always seems to be written,
b. That is Frank's automobile.

The apostrophe after the S (example A) is plural possesive and Example B is singular possessive.

Well I don't know what is plural about it but whatever. I just thought it was always used to denote a conjunction.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Arnie on September 24, 2011, 02:43:06 PM
Whatever happened to the possessive apostrophe in the English language.
a. That is Franks' automobile.

Nowadays it always seems to be written,
b. That is Frank's automobile.
a. Would be the Franks family automobile. (plural)

b. Would be an automobile belonging to Frank. (singular)

Many times these days people don't distinguish...or don't know how.  But, what can you expect with MS Word auto-correcting everything?

People have begun to forget how to spell.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 02:44:09 PM
The bigger problem seems to be in the use of an apostrophe to make a word plural, for example: Apple's are $1 per pound.  This seems to have become common usage.  

I've always found that annoying.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Laser Man on September 24, 2011, 02:44:31 PM
As I understand it, the US used the "ou" in words like labor (labour) and color (colour) until the 1930's.  Don't know why the spellings were changed, though.

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 02:46:05 PM
As I understand it, the US used the "ou" in words like labor (labour) and color (colour) until the 1930's.  Don't know why the spellings were changed, though.



Actually, the changes came in the 19th century. Daniel Webster attempted to simplify spelling of certain words.  Since it was after the American Revolution, the rest of the British Empire for some reason, didn't feel obliged to comply.   ;)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Arnie on September 24, 2011, 02:47:42 PM
Don't forget...

it's versus its

it's = it is

its = possessive tense of it
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Laser Man on September 24, 2011, 02:48:57 PM
Reading this thread, I feel I'm in good company!  A friend of mine teaches a college-level course on writing and he tells his class that typos are "like bad breath on paper!"
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 02:51:27 PM
Whatever happened to the possessive apostrophe in the English language.
a. That is Franks' automobile.

Nowadays it always seems to be written,
b. That is Frank's automobile.
a. Would be the Franks family automobile. (plural)

b. Would be an automobile belonging to Frank. (singular)

Many times these days people don't distinguish...or don't know how.  But, what can you expect with MS Word auto-correcting everything?

People have begun to forget how to spell.

Never mind.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: 120inna55 on September 24, 2011, 03:09:07 PM
Im more than happy to be proved wrong, but I have a feeling the version that pisses you off is the correct one (although I tend to use the one that doesnt piss you off)

Tyler, Schro, and BaldRob walk into a bar...  :)

FWIW, the version he prefers is correct.

EDIT:  This was already addressed, but for some reason, I wasn't seeing subsequent posts.  Sorry.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
Here's something that happens here all the time, and it DRIVES ME INSANE. Im not sure if this happens in America, but here, its very common.

"If I'd had the money, I would've bought it". When people speak those words (or similar), it sounds like just like that. Would've. However, when they type it or write it, they type it or write it like this:

"If I'd had the money, I would of bought it".

I dont know if its ignorance, a bad education or laziness, but a hell of a lot of people here think 'would've' is the shortened version of 'would of', rather than 'would have'.

Something else that gets on my titt1es here is when people say 'I bought it off my friend', instead of 'I bought it from my friend', or even worse, 'I brought it off my friend' :o

But for me, the worst Englishism (or the one that drives me insane most of all) is what I call 'turnarounditis'. Its some sort of physical compulsion people experience before they do anything.

"I told my friend he was ugly and he turned around and punched me in the face". "I called the bank to find out my balance and the girl turned around and said I'm £15.51 in credit". "I confronted my boyfriend about whether he'd shagged the girl next door and he turned around and denied it".

Before doing anything, a lot of English people actually do a 360 degree turn. They are the European version of the Whirling Dervish.


Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: 120inna55 on September 24, 2011, 03:25:51 PM
GSGUK, with regard to "turned around".  I wonder if that's not just vernacular.

For instance, where I'm from, "fixing to" (literally spoken "fixin' to") is commonly used to express intent.

One would commonly say, "I was just fixin' to change my oil".

"Y'all" is also commonly used since folks around here can't seem to grasp the fact that "you" can refer to a group.

What's even better is that while "y'all" is acceptable, "you all" is considered yankee-speak and thus is frowned upon. ("Yankee" here used to refer to northeastern US as opposed to the US in general as described by some British).
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 03:31:46 PM
Yes, Im sure thats probably what it is. It drives me nuts though.

The other thing I've never understood is when someone in America is 'fixing dinner'. Why is it being fixed? Whats wrong with it? Is it broken? :o

:D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: cvasara on September 24, 2011, 03:42:20 PM
Because that's the way we speak.  We speak American here, Not real English.
Maybe that's one reason the United States of America doesn't have an official language.
(It would probably be Spanish anyway).
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 03:45:59 PM
p.s. I like y'all. I think it sounds nice :D

I know there are a million accents in America, and probably a million within Texas alone, but 'Texan' is my favourite American accent of all. I could listen to it for hours. New York (city) is a very close second. Apologies to anyone in or from New England, but the American accent I find the hardest to take is the Boston accent, at least when its used by someone I dont know. Once I get used to it, its not so bad, but generally, Boston is the one I find the most difficult to listen to.

I think (but could be wrong) that you can go quite a long way in America and still hear the same (or very similar) accent, whereas here, you can literally go to the next town or village and hear a totally different accent. My favourite UK accent (by far) is east London (cockney), followed quite closely by Newcastle upon Tyne, and also Cardiff. Worst in the UK (IMO) is Bristol. OMG.

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 03:47:22 PM
Because that's the way we speak.  We speak American here, Not real English.
Maybe that's one reason the United States of America doesn't have an official language.
(It would probably be Spanish anyway).

Really? It doesnt have an official language? Im surprised. I didnt know that.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 03:52:28 PM
p.s. I like y'all. I think it sounds nice :D

I know there are a million accents in America, and probably a million within Texas alone, but 'Texan' is my favourite American accent of all. I could listen to it for hours. New York (city) is a very close second. Apologies to anyone in or from New England, but the American accent I find the hardest to take is the Boston accent, at least when its used by someone I dont know. Once I get used to it, its not so bad, but generally, Boston is the one I find the most difficult to listen to.

I think (but could be wrong) that you can go quite a long way in America and still hear the same (or very similar) accent, whereas here, you can literally go to the next town or village and hear a totally different accent. My favourite UK accent (by far) is east London (cockney), followed quite closely by Newcastle upon Tyne, and also Cardiff. Worst in the UK (IMO) is Bristol. OMG.



What's really strange is, we can travel halfway across the country to the midwest from the mid-Atlantic region or go up to Canada and the accents are not that different, except for some minor inflections.  Yet in New York and Boston, they are extremely different.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:03:19 PM
NYC and Boston accents are a different as night and day, yet I can go from from LA to Vegas or LA to SF and I dont detect a single difference. There are some differences in some of the actual words and phrases people use - when I worked in Omaha, for example, they used some really strange phrases and names for things - but the accent, to me at least, was no different in Omaha than in LA.

But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 04:05:28 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: cvasara on September 24, 2011, 04:11:56 PM
p.s. I like y'all. I think it sounds nice :D

I know there are a million accents in America, and probably a million within Texas alone, but 'Texan' is my favourite American accent of all. I could listen to it for hours. New York (city) is a very close second. Apologies to anyone in or from New England, but the American accent I find the hardest to take is the Boston accent, at least when its used by someone I dont know. Once I get used to it, its not so bad, but generally, Boston is the one I find the most difficult to listen to.

I think (but could be wrong) that you can go quite a long way in America and still hear the same (or very similar) accent, whereas here, you can literally go to the next town or village and hear a totally different accent. My favourite UK accent (by far) is east London (cockney), followed quite closely by Newcastle upon Tyne, and also Cardiff. Worst in the UK (IMO) is Bristol. OMG.



What's really strange is, we can travel halfway across the country to the midwest from the mid-Atlantic region or go up to Canada and the accents are not that different, except for some minor inflections.  Yet in New York and Boston, they are extremely different.

Yes Sir, and you can look it up.   (lost a bet on that one)  Can I ask, (off topic of course),  that isn't your Pink bike in the back ground, is it??
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:13:26 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D

LOL. Well I've been to Philadelphia and I cant say I noticed much a difference there to a 'generic' American accent, and I'm guessing south NJ accents must be similar to Philadelphia.

I think there's something very sexy about a Texan accent, and also a NYC accent. I dont know what exactly, I just think there's a sexiness to them.

There's certainly a very big difference between Canadian and American accents, although a lot of people here assume Canadians are American. I can never tell the difference between one Canadian accent and another though. To me, someone in Vancouver sounds the same as someone in Halifax, and I'm sure they must sound very different. Obviously, the exception to this would be accents in Quebec. I can definitely tell the difference there :D

When I'm in America, most people think I'm Australian, and most people in the UK think I'm Canadian, although if I were to ask them what the difference is between a Canadian and American accent, most would just shrug their shoulders, so I dont know why they zoom in on 'Canadian' when they try to guess where I'm from. I suppose they hear something Americanish, but not quite American, so they go for the Canada option.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 04:13:59 PM
p.s. I like y'all. I think it sounds nice :D

I know there are a million accents in America, and probably a million within Texas alone, but 'Texan' is my favourite American accent of all. I could listen to it for hours. New York (city) is a very close second. Apologies to anyone in or from New England, but the American accent I find the hardest to take is the Boston accent, at least when its used by someone I dont know. Once I get used to it, its not so bad, but generally, Boston is the one I find the most difficult to listen to.

I think (but could be wrong) that you can go quite a long way in America and still hear the same (or very similar) accent, whereas here, you can literally go to the next town or village and hear a totally different accent. My favourite UK accent (by far) is east London (cockney), followed quite closely by Newcastle upon Tyne, and also Cardiff. Worst in the UK (IMO) is Bristol. OMG.



What's really strange is, we can travel halfway across the country to the midwest from the mid-Atlantic region or go up to Canada and the accents are not that different, except for some minor inflections.  Yet in New York and Boston, they are extremely different.

Yes Sir, and you can look it up.   (lost a bet on that one)  Can I ask, (off topic of course),  that isn't your Pink bike in the back ground, is it??

Nope, definitely not mine.    :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 04:14:36 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D

Funny how that works ain't it.?
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:17:39 PM
p.s. I like y'all. I think it sounds nice :D

I know there are a million accents in America, and probably a million within Texas alone, but 'Texan' is my favourite American accent of all. I could listen to it for hours. New York (city) is a very close second. Apologies to anyone in or from New England, but the American accent I find the hardest to take is the Boston accent, at least when its used by someone I dont know. Once I get used to it, its not so bad, but generally, Boston is the one I find the most difficult to listen to.

I think (but could be wrong) that you can go quite a long way in America and still hear the same (or very similar) accent, whereas here, you can literally go to the next town or village and hear a totally different accent. My favourite UK accent (by far) is east London (cockney), followed quite closely by Newcastle upon Tyne, and also Cardiff. Worst in the UK (IMO) is Bristol. OMG.



What's really strange is, we can travel halfway across the country to the midwest from the mid-Atlantic region or go up to Canada and the accents are not that different, except for some minor inflections.  Yet in New York and Boston, they are extremely different.

Yes Sir, and you can look it up.   (lost a bet on that one)  Can I ask, (off topic of course),  that isn't your Pink bike in the back ground, is it??

Hmmm, you're quite right :D I just looked on Wikipedia, and English is America's de facto language, but not its official language. Very interesting

And do I look like a pink bike kind of guy? :D I was on a cruise, and that picture was taken at one of the ports of call (La Rochelle in France), and I just happened to be standing in front of that pink bike. I only noticed that a few days ago when someone asked me about it. However, my pink feather boa had just fallen off my shoulders so thats why its not showing in the picture ;) :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 04:18:21 PM
North Jersey think NYC and South Jersey think Philly.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Razor X on September 24, 2011, 04:18:37 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D

Funny how that works ain't it.?

I remember once when I was about five years old and my aunt came over from England for a visit.  The kid next door, who was the same age as me, couldn't get over her accent and at one point said to her, "You don't talk so good."    :*))
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:19:39 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D

Funny how that works ain't it.?

I remember once when I was about five years old and my aunt came over from England for a visit.  The kid next door, who was the same age as me, couldn't get over her accent and at one point said to her, "You don't talk so good."    :*))

lol.

Well I'm now assuming you sound like Bruce Willis.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 04:21:51 PM


But yes the actual NYC and Boston accents are different by a long way. I cant say I've ever noticed a difference between NY and NJ either, although I guess there must be some difference, particularly in southern NJ. I dont think I've been further south in NJ than Newark :o

We don't have accents in South Jersey.  Everyone else does.   :D

Funny how that works ain't it.?

I remember once when I was about five years old and my aunt came over from England for a visit.  The kid next door, who was the same age as me, couldn't get over her accent and at one point said to her, "You don't talk so good."    :*))

lol.

Well I'm now assuming you sound like Bruce Willis.

There's another South Jersey guy.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: cvasara on September 24, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
Cha Chin on the English language thing,  you can use it on a bar bet sometime,
No  you don't but a Pink bike in the back ground has to be a Q on this board.
Every body talks funny, to us here in the Midwest US.  Aye?
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:26:16 PM
North Jersey think NYC and South Jersey think Philly.

The thing is though Tom, Philadelphia (to me) sounds the same as Seattle or Cleveland. I cant hear a difference in Philadelphia, whereas NYC is very detectable. I can even hear a difference between NYC and CT, but Philadelphia (to me) has what I call a 'generic' American accent, so I guess my ears arent as finely tuned as they should be :(

For me, the places in America that have a very noticable accent are Boston, NYC, Miami, the whole GA/MS/AL/LA area, Texas, Chicago, Detroit, Alaska and Hawaii. Apart from those places, everyone sounds just about the same to me. But I would imagine its the same for most non-British people when they come to the UK. Most probably cant tell the difference between a Surrey accent and a Norwich accent, or a Llandudno accent and a Swansea accent, even though (to me) the difference is huge.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:28:30 PM
Cha Chin on the English language thing,  you can use it on a bar bet sometime,
No  you don't but a Pink bike in the back ground has to be a Q on this board.
Every body talks funny, to us here in the Midwest US.  Aye?

Well you're the third guy to ask me about the bike :D I guess I should change my picture again :( They all look like sh1t but at least the others dont have a pink bike in the background lol

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: cvasara on September 24, 2011, 04:31:59 PM
That was one, quick AV change.   My wife likes the bike though. 
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 04:33:02 PM
I was in Brooklyn once and some guy said "You must be from Philly" and I asked how he did that and he said "You got a Philly accent" and naturally I said "What accent.?".
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:35:05 PM
I was in Brooklyn once and some guy said "You must be from Philly" and I asked how he did that and he said "You got a Philly accent" and naturally I said "What accent.?".

When I'm in America, people either usually make no mention of my accent, or they say 'OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I JUST LOVE YOUR ACCENT ITS SO CUTE, ITS SO QUAINT, DID YOU KNOW LADY DI PERSONALLY, OMG SAY THAT AGAIN, I LOVE THE WAY YOU SAY THAT'...and I usually just reply with 'thanks, but its you that has the accent...'. :)
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:35:39 PM
That was one, quick AV change.   My wife likes the bike though. 


I'll ship it to her as long as she leaves me positive feedback first ;) :D
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 24, 2011, 04:37:14 PM
I was in Brooklyn once and some guy said "You must be from Philly" and I asked how he did that and he said "You got a Philly accent" and naturally I said "What accent.?".

When I'm in America, people either usually make no mention of my accent, or they say 'OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I JUST LOVE YOUR ACCENT ITS SO CUTE, ITS SO QUAINT, DID YOU KNOW LADY DI PERSONALLY, OMG SAY THAT AGAIN, I LOVE THE WAY YOU SAY THAT'...and I usually just reply with 'thanks, but its you that has the accent...'. :)

LOL...nobody ever thinks they have an accent.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 24, 2011, 04:42:59 PM
I was in Brooklyn once and some guy said "You must be from Philly" and I asked how he did that and he said "You got a Philly accent" and naturally I said "What accent.?".

When I'm in America, people either usually make no mention of my accent, or they say 'OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I JUST LOVE YOUR ACCENT ITS SO CUTE, ITS SO QUAINT, DID YOU KNOW LADY DI PERSONALLY, OMG SAY THAT AGAIN, I LOVE THE WAY YOU SAY THAT'...and I usually just reply with 'thanks, but its you that has the accent...'. :)

LOL...nobody ever thinks they have an accent.

I never think about my accent, until I step foot on American soil, and quite honestly, the entire time I'm in the US, I try to speak to people as little as possible. I have a serious fear of not being understood, or being told I sound quaint or cute, or feeling like Eurotrash.

Many years ago I worked at a call centre in Nebraska. I was one of about 17 million people working there (exaggeration), and because everyone has to use a unique name when they answered a call, I was given the name 'Art'. After about an hour, it became clear that there was no way a guy with an English accent could use that name, because it sounded like 'ahhhht', so they changed my name to Donald, which still sounded very different to the way an American would pronounce Donald. By the end of my first week, the guy whose real name was Pete became Donald, and I became Pete.

I didnt know who the hell I was!
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: cvasara on September 24, 2011, 05:25:48 PM
Cool response,  but Like all telemarketers,  I don't care what you sound like, I think you're probably from India.    I'm still going to ask you for you home number, and we can talk about it after dinner.  I leave out the other things I usually will say, before I get, very rudely, I might add, hung up on.   
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Laser Man on September 24, 2011, 09:27:40 PM
There are some other accents beside NY and Boston.  Try Pittsburgh and Texas.  And by the way, a northern New Jersey accent is different from a NY accent!
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Chavster on September 25, 2011, 12:34:54 AM
Cool response,  but Like all telemarketers,  I don't care what you sound like, I think you're probably from India.    I'm still going to ask you for you home number, and we can talk about it after dinner.  I leave out the other things I usually will say, before I get, very rudely, I might add, hung up on.   

When they call, and they're invariably from India, I just hang up. Its not a race thing, its an 'I can never understand a word they say' thing, added with some 'I never want what they're selling' thing, plus some 'I'm way too busy to talk about new windows' thing. So I just hang up.

There are some other accents beside NY and Boston.  Try Pittsburgh and Texas.  And by the way, a northern New Jersey accent is different from a NY accent!

Well I said 'Texan' is my favourite accent of all, so I know there's an accent there :D Thats one helluva sexy accent (even though I know there are lots of different accents within Texas, they all sound the same to me). as for NJ, I have a friend living in Vegas. He is from Mahwah NJ, and his wife is from Haddonfield NJ. To me, they sound not only identical to each other, but they both sound as if they were born, raised, and never stepped more than 2 feet away from Broadway and 53rd :o She sounds just like Barbra Streisand, and I know Babs isnt from Broadway and 53rd either...

Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on September 25, 2011, 05:49:29 AM
I used to frequent the Starbucks in Haddonfield quite regularly. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Mr Jules on April 11, 2012, 04:19:27 PM
I know what terse means, you young whippersnapper you :D but I was trying to think of 'terse' in conjuction with my spaghetti analogy :D

I dont think it matters whether the headline is suppose to be terse or not...its just that comma thing, it seems to be used all the time, and I just dont get it :)



And I thought it was just me who gets annoyed with the American comma headline thing.

Right. I'm signing off for the night. (darned, I just said 'right').

Here's a British comedy clip taking the pi$$ on the amount of times we say 'right'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEkjiF_UilE
For american viewers, it helps if you know the meaning of the British word 'bollocks'.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on April 11, 2012, 04:27:41 PM
Right then Jules.
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: Mr Jules on April 15, 2012, 03:39:24 PM
Right then Jules.

I now realise when us Brits say "Right". It's usually before we plan to do something.

"Right, I'm having breakfast"
"Right, I'm getting drinks for everyone"

But not before expressing an opinion. So you'd never hear: "Right, it's a sunny day"
Title: Re: An American grammar question (totally off topic)
Post by: tomgallagher on April 15, 2012, 03:56:32 PM
I think y'all use Right the same  way we use Okay.