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#30 by Rusty Shackleford on 24 Oct, 2009 20:00
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Rusty, I'm a bike geek, so let me chime in. My pet peeve is drivers who have a problem with the idea that they need to accommodate other people, whether that's another car, someone on a bike or someone crossing the street.
* Making a right-hand turn from your lane instead of pulling off onto the shoulder to make the turn.
This is really annoying when people don't know how to deal with bike lanes. The dashed line means you are supposed to pull into the bike lane before making a right turn. This lets the bikes pass you on the left. Unless you're reckless about it, nobody is going to ride into you. I am not going to ride to the right of a car with its right turn signal on. Too many bad stories.* Bicycle riders who think their bikes are cars. Roads are for cars. Stay on the sidewalk.
I know it sucks to be trapped in a car while watching other people who are free and having fun. Roads were paved originally for bicycles, actually. (Before bike tires, they were gravel and wood and dirt which was OK for stage coaches and the like.) Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in most places. Drivers and their vehicles need to be licensed and registered.* Bicycle riders who go out of their way to be obnoxious. Some roads will have bike lanes, but where do most riders insist on riding? Directly on top of the line separating the car lane from the bike lane. I really think it kills these people that a special bike lane prevents them from directly interfering with traffic so they ride as close as they can to the cars to be as annoying as they can be.
Some bicyclists are obnoxious, I agree. On the other hand, debris often ends up the bike lane, and it's not the kind of thing you can see from a car. In some places, the bike lane is so narrow that there is nowhere to go if a parked car opens its door. In California and everywhere else I'm aware of, cyclists are not forced to ride in an unsafe lane. Drivers and cyclists are looking for completely different hazards, but why assume a bike rider is trying to annoy you? Believe me, the last thing I want to do is to set off somebody's road rage, but I'd rather have someone honk at me instead of risk that they didn't see me at all.
I suppose the other problem is with the helmets, you can't tell which of us are your SLY friends
but there are a lot of us out there, so a little patience and space helps!
No, no, no... The right-hand turn complaints had nothing to do with bike lanes. I was just talking about in general. We see this here a lot in Florida where people will just stop on the road and then make their right-hand turn into a shopping center. It makes me wish I had some old clunker that I could drive into the rear of theirs.
But I don't have a problem with the idea of biker riders using the highways, but in practice what I see is a consistent behavior of smug superiority coming from them. They seem to revel in the idea that THEY have the right-of-way and enjoy knowing others must look out for them. That's why they don't like the sidewalks. In the sidewalks it would change the rules and force THEM to look out for the right-of-way of pedestrians.
As for the roads being originally built for bikes, well, I'm sure they were originally built for horse or foot travel. But here in the 21st century roads are primarily designed and utilized by automobiles and bike riders should respect their place.
Before my bike died a slow and pathetic death I used to ride my bike all the time. I loved it, and it was bizarre riding into town that first time because the view from the bike was somehow as foreign as driving down some unseen town. But I knew my place: I stayed on the sidewalk and always made sure I interfered with cars as little as possible because the roads are for them. I am only a visitor. I do the same thing when I jog: I keep out of the way of cars. In both cases this is not entirely for safety reasons because it's out of respect for the true road pecking order. Once again, when I jog, the roads are for cars. I am only a visitor. When I approach an intersection with a vehicle I make a big curve around the back of their vehicle so that they are not held up by someone screwing around on foot.
As for having to stay towards the center of the road because there could be debris on the road... I can't gather much sympathy because it means you must be riding too fast for the conditions. For example, I may want to ride 100MPH in my car to the next town but the road conditions would never safely tolerate that. Therefore, while you may be able to maintain 45MPH on a bike, if you cannot do it safely and keep track of debris on the road then you should not be doing it! -
#31 by wpruitt on 24 Oct, 2009 20:45
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My Grandfather, a notoriously slow driver (even in his younger years ... it makes the car last longer) was very courteous. When he saw traffic beginning to buid up behind him, he would either (1) speed up, (2) pull over and allow traffic to pass, or (3) roll down his window and give them and all clear to come around him.
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#32 by (|8-) on 24 Oct, 2009 23:32
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As for the roads being originally built for bikes, well, I'm sure they were originally built for horse or foot travel. But here in the 21st century roads are primarily designed and utilized by automobiles and bike riders should respect their place.
Hmm....bikes have to follow the same rules as cars, except for riding in a bike lane or at the right edge of the road (unless it is unsafe to do so, when passing, when making a left turn, or on a one-way street where the left edge is also OK). That also means that bikes get the right-of-way in the same situations as cars do. Sometimes bikes have to slow down for cars and sometimes cars have to slow down for bikes.
I can see why you might be upset if you believe that bikes are supposed to yield to cars! But those cyclists are just following the rules, and riding to be invisible is very dangerous. Most people who commute on their bikes (the topic of this thread) figure that out pretty quickly. People don't ride to be seen to annoy you. Please don't take it personally or get upset.As for having to stay towards the center of the road because there could be debris on the road... I can't gather much sympathy because it means you must be riding too fast for the conditions. For example, I may want to ride 100MPH in my car to the next town but the road conditions would never safely tolerate that. Therefore, while you may be able to maintain 45MPH on a bike, if you cannot do it safely and keep track of debris on the road then you should not be doing it!
What I was trying to say is that riders see the debris and avoid it by riding farther out from the edge of the road or bike lane. Because bike lanes and shoulders do not have as heavy traffic as the main lanes, the debris tends to get swept to the side of the road, especially if parking is allowed. Running over broken glass is going to give you a flat tire whether you are going 10 mph or 45. The only way to avoid the debris is to not run over it. I'm not sure what you are saying someone should do in this case. -
#33 by Alexander215 on 25 Oct, 2009 10:24
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Rusty, I'm a bike geek, so let me chime in. My pet peeve is drivers who have a problem with the idea that they need to accommodate other people, whether that's another car, someone on a bike or someone crossing the street.
* Making a right-hand turn from your lane instead of pulling off onto the shoulder to make the turn.
This is really annoying when people don't know how to deal with bike lanes. The dashed line means you are supposed to pull into the bike lane before making a right turn. This lets the bikes pass you on the left. Unless you're reckless about it, nobody is going to ride into you. I am not going to ride to the right of a car with its right turn signal on. Too many bad stories.* Bicycle riders who think their bikes are cars. Roads are for cars. Stay on the sidewalk.
I know it sucks to be trapped in a car while watching other people who are free and having fun. Roads were paved originally for bicycles, actually. (Before bike tires, they were gravel and wood and dirt which was OK for stage coaches and the like.) Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in most places. Drivers and their vehicles need to be licensed and registered.* Bicycle riders who go out of their way to be obnoxious. Some roads will have bike lanes, but where do most riders insist on riding? Directly on top of the line separating the car lane from the bike lane. I really think it kills these people that a special bike lane prevents them from directly interfering with traffic so they ride as close as they can to the cars to be as annoying as they can be.
Some bicyclists are obnoxious, I agree. On the other hand, debris often ends up the bike lane, and it's not the kind of thing you can see from a car. In some places, the bike lane is so narrow that there is nowhere to go if a parked car opens its door. In California and everywhere else I'm aware of, cyclists are not forced to ride in an unsafe lane. Drivers and cyclists are looking for completely different hazards, but why assume a bike rider is trying to annoy you? Believe me, the last thing I want to do is to set off somebody's road rage, but I'd rather have someone honk at me instead of risk that they didn't see me at all.
I suppose the other problem is with the helmets, you can't tell which of us are your SLY friends but there are a lot of us out there, so a little patience and space helps!
No, no, no... The right-hand turn complaints had nothing to do with bike lanes. I was just talking about in general. We see this here a lot in Florida where people will just stop on the road and then make their right-hand turn into a shopping center. It makes me wish I had some old clunker that I could drive into the rear of theirs.
But I don't have a problem with the idea of biker riders using the highways, but in practice what I see is a consistent behavior of smug superiority coming from them. They seem to revel in the idea that THEY have the right-of-way and enjoy knowing others must look out for them. That's why they don't like the sidewalks. In the sidewalks it would change the rules and force THEM to look out for the right-of-way of pedestrians.
As for the roads being originally built for bikes, well, I'm sure they were originally built for horse or foot travel. But here in the 21st century roads are primarily designed and utilized by automobiles and bike riders should respect their place.
Before my bike died a slow and pathetic death I used to ride my bike all the time. I loved it, and it was bizarre riding into town that first time because the view from the bike was somehow as foreign as driving down some unseen town. But I knew my place: I stayed on the sidewalk and always made sure I interfered with cars as little as possible because the roads are for them. I am only a visitor. I do the same thing when I jog: I keep out of the way of cars. In both cases this is not entirely for safety reasons because it's out of respect for the true road pecking order. Once again, when I jog, the roads are for cars. I am only a visitor. When I approach an intersection with a vehicle I make a big curve around the back of their vehicle so that they are not held up by someone screwing around on foot.
As for having to stay towards the center of the road because there could be debris on the road... I can't gather much sympathy because it means you must be riding too fast for the conditions. For example, I may want to ride 100MPH in my car to the next town but the road conditions would never safely tolerate that. Therefore, while you may be able to maintain 45MPH on a bike, if you cannot do it safely and keep track of debris on the road then you should not be doing it!
http://www.bikeleague.org/action/bikelaws/state_laws.php
For the most part, bicyclists have the same rights, follow the same rules and ride the same road as motorists. -
#34 by Mikekoz13 on 25 Oct, 2009 18:28
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I can't stand tailgaters....especially when I'm on my motorcycle. There's no good reason to tailgate anybody.
Last week, while on my bike I had a guy in a car tailgating me....so I sped up to get away from him. A couple miles down the road I'm sitting at a red light and I see jiom in my mirror flying up behind me and not slowing down. I was about ready to bail out to the right when he slammed on the brakes....stopped about 3 feet behind me and the MOVED UP so that his front bumper was even with the front of my rear tire about 1 foot from me.
That's when I noticed he was gnawing on a huge sandwhich. I flipped up the face on my modular helmet and told him if he didn't back off i was going to cram the sandwich up his ass so it would be easier to digest.
Funny....... he didn't get within a 1/4 mile of me for the next 18 miles........... -
#35 by Kratos on 25 Oct, 2009 18:51
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I can't stand tailgaters....especially when I'm on my motorcycle. There's no good reason to tailgate anybody.
Last week, while on my bike I had a guy in a car tailgating me....so I sped up to get away from him. A couple miles down the road I'm sitting at a red light and I see jiom in my mirror flying up behind me and not slowing down. I was about ready to bail out to the right when he slammed on the brakes....stopped about 3 feet behind me and the MOVED UP so that his front bumper was even with the front of my rear tire about 1 foot from me.
That's when I noticed he was gnawing on a huge sandwhich. I flipped up the face on my modular helmet and told him if he didn't back off i was going to cram the sandwich up his ass so it would be easier to digest.
Funny....... he didn't get within a 1/4 mile of me for the next 18 miles...........
Now that is what I like to hear
Good stuff.
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#36 by Alexander215 on 25 Oct, 2009 19:52
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I can't stand tailgaters....especially when I'm on my motorcycle. There's no good reason to tailgate anybody.
Last week, while on my bike I had a guy in a car tailgating me....so I sped up to get away from him. A couple miles down the road I'm sitting at a red light and I see jiom in my mirror flying up behind me and not slowing down. I was about ready to bail out to the right when he slammed on the brakes....stopped about 3 feet behind me and the MOVED UP so that his front bumper was even with the front of my rear tire about 1 foot from me.
That's when I noticed he was gnawing on a huge sandwhich. I flipped up the face on my modular helmet and told him if he didn't back off i was going to cram the sandwich up his ass so it would be easier to digest.
Funny....... he didn't get within a 1/4 mile of me for the next 18 miles...........
For some, it is the only way to learn.
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#37 by buddha on 26 Oct, 2009 17:26
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Then how come cars are made that can go faster than the speed limit??
And, most police officers won't pull you over unless you are doing more than 10 MPH over the posted limit. And most multilane roads have posted signs that state: "Slower Traffic Keep Right". AND, most police officers that I know will pull you over if you are impeding the flow of traffic by going at or less than the speed limit in the left lane because you are not "in the act of passing".
You can complain all you want about people tailgating you in the left lane, but who's the bigger *&^%$%&(**& ? And by the license plate in your signature, I know the answer to that...
It's really funny to me that drivers in all the states surrounding Wisconsin complain about Wisconsin drivers!! Must be that cheeseheads are so much better at driving than Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa drivers... RIGHT!!!!
[/quote]
It seems as though I touched a nerve with my response. I didn't know that tailgating was one of the intrinsic guarantees of the Constitution. That being said, Rob, I will attempt to address your concerns in the order that they are posted.
First, with regards to the cars being capable of exceeding the speed limit my thinking, and I'm probably wrong here, is that in these times of economic strife it would just make more sense to have a car that would max out at 70 or 75 mph and get 40 or 50 mpg. Of course cars like the Toyota Prius or the Honda Insight can both exceed the speed limit so I fear that this one will remain a paradox.
Second, regarding the cops you, dear moderator, are dead on with this one. When I was on the street I, and most of my bros in blue, had a loose rule that we didn't write anything less than 17 over. Part of my personal reasoning for this was that I liked to have tickets stand up in court and getting too nitpicky with the speed was a good way to develop a chicken$h!t rep among the attorneys. Also, I didn't want to spend too much time operating radar because there were bigger fish to fry in Wauktown, like my daily surveillance at Dunkin' Donuts. And, slower traffic should indeed stay to the right. On this point I had to re-read my original post because I feared that I had made a statement to the effect that I liked to be a rolling roadblock in the "fast" lane. Thankfully, in re-reading my post I found that I did not make such a statement. In point of fact I prefer the right lane (or the center if I'm on a 3 lane) and I leave the left one to the Grand Prix wannabes. Like I said, I hate being tailgated. I'm not going to set up a situation whence it becomes inevitable. Prix is pronounced Pree, right?
Third, regarding who's the biggest *&^%$%&(**? Well, since that came from one of the moderators I must assume that it's me. Don't worry, it's not the first time I've been referred to that way (or worse) and I take only minor offense. What puzzles me, though, is the part about the license plate. Is the prerequisite for being an *&^%$%&(** being from the state of Wisconsin or in my reference in the license plate to Buddha? In any case I'm getting a little nervous on this one because it seemed somewhat personal in nature. BTW, did I spell *&^%$%&(** correctly?
On the fourth point, I was totally unaware that any kind of accurate qualitative analysis had been done concerning the driving abilities of us Cheeseheads as opposed to people from Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, or the always feared FIBs. In any case, I think you are headed down the right road, hopefully in the unobstructed left lane, with this. Drivers up here are the reason I sold my motorcycle a few years back. Even though up here in the woods most of our county/state highways are 2 lane (one going this way and one going that way) tailgaters abound. Drunks, too. It took me a while to get used to it having been brought up in Logan Square in Chi and spending 20 years driving a squad car 8 hours a day in Waukegan. But one thing that cheeseheads are apparently better at than FIBs, at least this year, is football. This pains me greatly as I am a Bears fan and my buddies up here all like.....the Packers. Of course the Vikings are atop the division but they are led by #4, who is arguably the Ultimate Cheesehead.
Whew, now that we've dealt with that I hope the other mods don't pull this thread, this is really fun.
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#38 by BaldRob on 27 Oct, 2009 16:23
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It seems as though I touched a nerve with my response. I didn't know that tailgating was one of the intrinsic guarantees of the Constitution. That being said, Rob, I will attempt to address your concerns in the order that they are posted.
First, with regards to the cars being capable of exceeding the speed limit my thinking, and I'm probably wrong here, is that in these times of economic strife it would just make more sense to have a car that would max out at 70 or 75 mph and get 40 or 50 mpg. Of course cars like the Toyota Prius or the Honda Insight can both exceed the speed limit so I fear that this one will remain a paradox.
Second, regarding the cops you, dear moderator, are dead on with this one. When I was on the street I, and most of my bros in blue, had a loose rule that we didn't write anything less than 17 over. Part of my personal reasoning for this was that I liked to have tickets stand up in court and getting too nitpicky with the speed was a good way to develop a chicken$h!t rep among the attorneys. Also, I didn't want to spend too much time operating radar because there were bigger fish to fry in Wauktown, like my daily surveillance at Dunkin' Donuts. And, slower traffic should indeed stay to the right. On this point I had to re-read my original post because I feared that I had made a statement to the effect that I liked to be a rolling roadblock in the "fast" lane. Thankfully, in re-reading my post I found that I did not make such a statement. In point of fact I prefer the right lane (or the center if I'm on a 3 lane) and I leave the left one to the Grand Prix wannabes. Like I said, I hate being tailgated. I'm not going to set up a situation whence it becomes inevitable. Prix is pronounced Pree, right?
Third, regarding who's the biggest *&^%$%&(**? Well, since that came from one of the moderators I must assume that it's me. Don't worry, it's not the first time I've been referred to that way (or worse) and I take only minor offense. What puzzles me, though, is the part about the license plate. Is the prerequisite for being an *&^%$%&(** being from the state of Wisconsin or in my reference in the license plate to Buddha? In any case I'm getting a little nervous on this one because it seemed somewhat personal in nature. BTW, did I spell *&^%$%&(** correctly?
On the fourth point, I was totally unaware that any kind of accurate qualitative analysis had been done concerning the driving abilities of us Cheeseheads as opposed to people from Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, or the always feared FIBs. In any case, I think you are headed down the right road, hopefully in the unobstructed left lane, with this. Drivers up here are the reason I sold my motorcycle a few years back. Even though up here in the woods most of our county/state highways are 2 lane (one going this way and one going that way) tailgaters abound. Drunks, too. It took me a while to get used to it having been brought up in Logan Square in Chi and spending 20 years driving a squad car 8 hours a day in Waukegan. But one thing that cheeseheads are apparently better at than FIBs, at least this year, is football. This pains me greatly as I am a Bears fan and my buddies up here all like.....the Packers. Of course the Vikings are atop the division but they are led by #4, who is arguably the Ultimate Cheesehead.
Whew, now that we've dealt with that I hope the other mods don't pull this thread, this is really fun.
No nerves touched on here...
You actually gave some good information... 17 over in Waukegan??? Nice!! Speaking of which... when were you there? I lived there from 97 to 04.... Right around the corner from Louie's Pizza! You might have been to my house a few times to bust up parties! HAHAHAHAHA
However, I do know that is a general rule that most drivers can do 10 over and not have to worry about getting pulled over, unless you're driving like a total maniac...
Also, my tailgating is restricted to multi-lane roads.... those back country roads that you are refering to (like where I grew up) are tailgate free zones for me... unless of course some one is doing crazy slow, at which point I just pass them!
My jibe at your license plate was directed towrds the dreaded "W" word that automatically marks you as a less than able driver... And while no analysis was done on the driving ability (or lack there of) of cheeseheads, most drivers in the surrounding states would agree because cheesehead non-driving skills are always a topic of conversation when meeting people from those states! -
#39 by schro on 27 Oct, 2009 16:29
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What's an FIB?
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#40 by BaldRob on 27 Oct, 2009 16:33
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What's an FIB?
That would be a Fucking Illinois Bastard, as we are soooo affectionately refered to by Cheeseheads! -
#41 by GASlick on 27 Oct, 2009 20:26
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People that pull out in front of me and drive 50 feet and turn left. I mean really, can't they wait 4 seconds!
And people that speed up when I try to pass them. 50 mph is fine until I try to pass. THEN they figure out that 80 isn't so bad. argh! -
#42 by buddha on 28 Oct, 2009 02:25
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No nerves touched on here...
You actually gave some good information... 17 over in Waukegan??? Nice!! Speaking of which... when were you there? I lived there from 97 to 04.... Right around the corner from Louie's Pizza! You might have been to my house a few times to bust up parties! HAHAHAHAHA
However, I do know that is a general rule that most drivers can do 10 over and not have to worry about getting pulled over, unless you're driving like a total maniac...
Also, my tailgating is restricted to multi-lane roads.... those back country roads that you are refering to (like where I grew up) are tailgate free zones for me... unless of course some one is doing crazy slow, at which point I just pass them!
My jibe at your license plate was directed towrds the dreaded "W" word that automatically marks you as a less than able driver... And while no analysis was done on the driving ability (or lack there of) of cheeseheads, most drivers in the surrounding states would agree because cheesehead non-driving skills are always a topic of conversation when meeting people from those states!
[/quote]
I started on the PD in Waukegan on July 3, 1978 and retired on July 5, 1998.
Louie's Pizza? My wife and I owned a house for a couple of years at 1118 Palmer Place before we moved to Buckley Hills, the neighborhood north of Bowen Park on the east side of Sheridan Road. We used to go on Sundays to Louie's for the all-u-can eat chicken during football season.
I can understand the general animosity toward Wisconsin drivers. That, I think, is largely due to the effect that the "blue hairs" have on overall casualty rates. These people are the reason I sold my scooter a few years back. I just figured better to get rid of it than have to be watered like a turnip for the rest of my miserable existence. We have some truly excellent wheelmen up here, though (mostly ex-Illinois cops) but we are sadly outnumbered. They are up here in the millions.
I guess my #2 traffic annoyance would be people with blue hair. -
#43 by (|8-) on 29 Oct, 2009 01:03
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Wisconsin native here.
As has been pointed out, you can go 17 over in Illinois and nobody thinks that's a big deal. In fact, they get upset if you don't go at least 15 over. Especially if you have Wisconsin plates. When I had Pennsylvania plates, driving through downtown Chicago on my way to Wisconsin was much more fun. If you have Wisconsin plates, everybody in Illinois wants to pass you no matter how fast you are going because they just assume you are slow. So it makes perfect sense that Wisconsin drivers think that people from Illinois don't know how to drive.
Wisconsin makes a lot of money from speed traps (unlike Illinois, Wisconsin doesn't have toll booths greeting you at the state line), and they know it doesn't make sense to anger Wisconsin voters by collecting money from them. Wisconsin cops also know that Illinois drivers are used to getting away with 17 over, so Bears, White Sox, and Cubs games are excellent revenue opportunities. So they get pulled over a lot. Again, Wisconsinites don't even have to go to Illinois to get the impression that people from Illinois don't know how to drive because they're always the ones getting pulled over. In Wisconsin, they'll pull you over for six over if they feel like it. The natives know where all the speed traps are. They haven't changed since I was a kid.