An Update on Cayden

[MagmaBabe]

or i'm just talking out my but which a i do a lot.

hey don't worry frosty, I think we all do it from time to time 

Hopefully, crossing the two breeds will eradicate any of the health problems associated with  bulldogs. My friends' family had one and it died pretty young because of respiratory failure. It always sounded like it was a heavy smoker or something. 

[frostillicus123]

Accprding to the Wiki Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Bulldog) it actually helps the buldog with the breathing problems.

[Razor X]

I was talking with my cousin over the weekend, who's owned a million dogs his entire life. Anyway, he currently owns a boxer, which he paid $1000 for from a registered breeder (no longer in the breeding game); anyway his dog has had 2 cancer removal operations, one on his face and one on his hind leg, and when his nuts dropped, one didn't, and they had to remove them to prevent it from turning into a cancerous tumor.

However he was telling me about his other dog, Winston who would be the grandson of his older dog Brutus, which he had for about 10 years while i was a teenager. Winston is a Valley Bulldog. It is a cross between a Boxer and a Bulldog, looking like a taller bulldog or a slightly shorter boxer.  They range between 40-80lbs and is a very hearty dog.

The breed is not currently a registerred breed however there are a few advocates pushing to get it CKC registered. My cousin being one of them, and they are trying to do something no other dog has. if a Valley Bulldog is breed with either a boxer or a bulldog it is to be considered a pure Valley Bulldog. They want to prevent all the health problems and prevent inbreeding. Which i think is totally awesome.

Anyway you can check out this Wiki link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Bulldog

I might actually get into breeding, if i like this breed as much as he does. however I might just try to breed a Valley Bull with a Bullmastiff to proudce a huge dog. that could be cool

or i'm just talking out my but which a i do a lot.

At the risk of starting another controversy, deliberately crossing different breeds is seriously frowned upon by conscientious dog fanciers.   The goal of the ethical hobby breeder is to produce the ideal specimen of his chosen breed; to preserve the breed and improve upon it.   Crossing it with another breed and deliberately creating a mutt is considered to be a betrayal of the breed  and it is forbidden by virtually every breed club's code of ethics.  Mixed breed dogs can and do make excellent pets, but there are plenty of them in the shelters and pounds right now, without having to pay anyone to produce more. 

It's a common myth that crossing breeds minimizes health problems and results in a combination that is the "best of both breeds."  It's a marketing gimmick put forth by those who seek to profit from the sale of mixed-breed puppies.   In reality, the offspring are susceptible to all the health problems of both its parent breeds, and it is just as possible that the result will be the "worst of both breeds."  There's just no way to accurately predict what traits will be passed on.  Inbreeding does not cause health problems, but it does cause genetic weaknesses that are already there to pop up sooner.  Reputable breeders work toward minimizing or eliminating these weaknesses from their lines, to the extent possible.

Again, no disrespect intended toward you, your cousin, or anyone else.  But this is really not a good idea and I hope you will reconsider.

[warhawk]

razorx...gr8 dog info.  man.... i didn't know that but thanks 4 sharing.  BTW.... razorx.... u got a kool looking dog i bet she is fun & a "hoot" 2 b around.  i would luv 2 have a dog but me & the wifey  have busy schedules.  maybe one day... when i do i might want 2 get your opinion/advice on purchasing one...since u seem 2 have a wealth of knowledge as a dog owner.  if i do get a pet... it would b a mini-schnauzer (sp?).  i think it would b a good house dog.

WARHAWK

[JDog]

razorx...gr8 dog info.  man.... i didn't know that but thanks 4 sharing.  BTW.... razorx.... u got a kool looking dog i bet she is fun & a "hoot" 2 b around.  i would luv 2 have a dog but me & the wifey  have busy schedules.  maybe one day... when i do i might want 2 get your opinion/advice on purchasing one...since u seem 2 have a wealth of knowledge as a dog owner.  if i do get a pet... it would b a mini-schnauzer (sp?).  i think it would b a good house dog.

WARHAWK

Warhawk, I can tell you that mini Schnauzers are great dogs but can get a bit scrappy and protective at times so it would be important to let it be around other people other than you and your wife.

They are great with other small dog breeds like jack russels,fox terriers, etc but in the past I have seen mini schnauzers react badly with larger breeds as I think they be intimidated and scared.

Of course in the end, It all depends on how they are raised and treated.

Best of luck picking a nice dog bro!

[wpruitt]

Some of the best dogs I had growing up as a child were mutt's or "Heinz 57's".  They came from houses with "Free Puppies" signs out front and they were just plain lovable sweet dogs.

[Razor X]

Some of the best dogs I had growing up as a child were mutt's or "Heinz 57's".  They came from houses with "Free Puppies" signs out front and they were just plain lovable sweet dogs.

There's nothing wrong with that.  The shelters are full of wonderful mixed-breed dogs that can make wonderful pets -- which is why there's no need to line the pockets of those who are deliberately producing more mutts.

[frostillicus123]

All pure breed dogs are mutts..... at some point someone deceided to cross Bulldogs with English Mastifs and now we have the beautiful BullMastiff, someone else deceided to cross the now extinct german Bullenwiser (spell oh so wrong) with the bulldog  and now we have boxers, someone else crossed them with English mastiff's and possible an irish wolfhound and we have great dane..... all very beautiful and pure dogs now... so why is it frowned upon to try to get traits of beautiful dogs in one?

All the Dogs that the made the Valley Bulldog are Molosser, and the Valley Bulldog along with English Bulldog and Boxers and many others are accepted by the International Olde English Bulldogge Association (http://www.ioeba.net/) so I don't see a problem. And if someone crossed a dog or two from that group really what is the difference. I totally agree that someone shouldn't charge a couple of thousand dollars for a mixed breed even if they are from the same group. but 100-200 per dog to recoup expenses shouldn't be an isisue at all... And if the dog doesn't come with needles, de-wormed, and dew claw removed, than there shoudn't be a cent exchanged in the transaction.

[Razor X]

All pure breed dogs are mutts..... at some point someone deceided to cross Bulldogs with English Mastifs and now we have the beautiful BullMastiff, someone else deceided to cross the now extinct german Bullenwiser (spell oh so wrong) with the bulldog  and now we have boxers, someone else crossed them with English mastiff's and possible an irish wolfhound and we have great dane..... all very beautiful and pure dogs now... so why is it frowned upon to try to get traits of beautiful dogs in one?

Because those breeds were all developed when dogs were used mostly for specific working purposes.  Nowadays the vast majority are pets and with all the breeds available to choose from, why do we need more?

All the Dogs that the made the Valley Bulldog are Molosser, and the Valley Bulldog along with English Bulldog and Boxers and many others are accepted by the International Olde English Bulldogge Association (http://www.ioeba.net/) so I don't see a problem. And if someone crossed a dog or two from that group really what is the difference. I totally agree that someone shouldn't charge a couple of thousand dollars for a mixed breed even if they are from the same group. but 100-200 per dog to recoup expenses shouldn't be an isisue at all... And if the dog doesn't come with needles, de-wormed, and dew claw removed, than there shoudn't be a cent exchanged in the transaction.

Because once you start crossing with something else, you no longer have a purebred dog.  You can never achieve any level of breed type until the gene pool is restricted enough to consistently produce offspring that look like the parents. 

Every recognized breed has a breed club that has established a breed standard to be used as a guideline for the ideal specimen of that breed.  There is no breed standard for mixed breeds -- there can't be, because you can't do a first generation cross between two breeds and know what you're going to end up with?  Without a breed club, a breed standard, and conformation shows to validate the worthiness of breeding stock, all you have is the production of more mutts.  For what purpose?   The shelters are overrunning with mutts already.

Who is going to be responsible for these dogs if nobody wants them?  A reputable breeder will always take back any dog of their breeding, at any time in the animal's life, for any reason.  Breed rescue exists as a safety net for those who were produced by puppy mills and irresponsible, for-profit breeders who don't take responsibility for their anmials.  The mutts end up in the pound -- the lucky few get adopted and the rest get euthanized.

[frostillicus123]

If I bred which i doubt i will cause it appears to be too much of a headache. I would be a responsible breeder..... such as application forms for the dogs, do a check at the police station for abuse to either human/animal. And if something negative comes back than i'm down with that person.

now what really hate about purebred dogs, is they run anywhere between 200-2500 and chances are you are paying 2500 for a healthy dog.... I'm sorry but that's f**King retarded to geta healthy dog. I would love to get a nice healthy boxer, and i wouldn't mind paying 200-500 for one. It doesn't have be a perfect looking boxer becuse i have no plans to show it. just want the general public to recognize it as a boxer.

Now as for the valley bull, it does have national clubs and is recognized by the International Olde English Bulldogge Association (http://www.ioeba.net/).

[Razor X]

now what really hate about purebred dogs, is they run anywhere between 200-2500 and chances are you are paying 2500 for a healthy dog.... I'm sorry but that's f**King retarded to geta healthy dog. I would love to get a nice healthy boxer, and i wouldn't mind paying 200-500 for one. It doesn't have be a perfect looking boxer becuse i have no plans to show it. just want the general public to recognize it as a boxer.

It's a lot of money, to be sure, but breeding is not a profitable undertaking if done properly.  There's the costs of health screening the parents, showing them in dog shows, costs of shipping dogs to other parts of the country to be bred, stud fees,  artificial insemination, hip X-rays, eye certs, vaccinations for the puppies, tail docking and dew-claw removal  -- and those are just the costs associated if there are no complications.  It all adds up.  Anyone who's selling puppies at bargain prices is cutting corners somewhere.

[frostillicus123]

I never thought of it that way,

although all the breeders i've talked to, have their own stud and dame. that shuold eleminate on a lot of the issues with travel and what not.I honestly just thought it was a profit thing.

I'd love to get an Irish Wolfhound and the average price is 3000 my gf thinks they are too big.

[Razor X]

I never thought of it that way,

although all the breeders i've talked to, have their own stud and dame. that shuold eleminate on a lot of the issues with travel and what not.I honestly just thought it was a profit thing.

And that's the type of breeder you want to avoid.  Those are usually just people who have one male and one female (a breeding pair) and keep breeding them to each other to produce puppies.  They aren't looking for the best possible match for their stud or bitch.  These are usually people who just think it would be fun to have puppies or that it's a good way to make a few extra bucks. 

Reputable breeders sometimes do have their own stud dog, but more often than not they use someone else's stud.  And they avoid mating the same dogs to each other over and over, because that's what restricts the gene pool for the next generation even more.

[frostillicus123]

This breeder has told me she searched for years to find a great breeding pair. They are CKC registered pups, and require a contract for no breeding.


check it out tell me what you think.
http://www.shayscotiandanes.com/

[Razor X]

This breeder has told me she searched for years to find a great breeding pair. They are CKC registered pups, and require a contract for no breeding.


check it out tell me what you think.
http://www.shayscotiandanes.com/

She seems to be saying all the right things, but I'm a little concerned that there's no mention of her belonging to the national club and no mention of her having shown these dogs and earned championship titles.  Find out if she's had the hips X-rayed.   I would also call some breeders listed on the Great Dane Club of Canada website:

http://www.gdcc.ca/breeder.html

See if any of these people know her. If they don't, stay away from her.