MEN! Prepare for some tough love.

[GASlick]

Being born and raised in the South, we are a big "huggy" bunch of folks.  That much is for sure!  lol

[Razor X]

I grew up in a Middle Eastern culture (in this country).  The guys weren't afraid to hold hands or even kiss each other on the cheeks.  I miss that SO much, but don't want to be misunderstood. 

I am eternally grateful that is not the custom here.   I really don't like people touching me except under certain situations.      I can't stand being around people who have to put their hand your shoulder or on your arm when they're talking to you. 

[buddha]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here.  Ya know what I hate about American society?  Men are so afraid of being misunderstood that they're afraid to show non-sexual affection to other guys.  I grew up in a Middle Eastern culture (in this country).  The guys weren't afraid to hold hands or even kiss each other on the cheeks.  I miss that SO much, but don't want to be misunderstood.  Plus, guys aren't supposed to show any emotions, either. 

This was one of the things that we dealt with on some of the retreats I was privileged to be part of. Men came into these weekends so uptight about being thought to be gay and that, believe or not, is the main reason that men in this country find the practice of hugging so objectionable.

Being a straight man the act of hugging was always difficult for me until I understood what was behind my resistance. I never even hugged my father until I was in my late 30s and he didn't hug me after a certain age, probably about 10. Nowadays it is different for me and that has been a tremendous relief. As men I think we have been trained to always present what is considered a manly front by those who I would call masculine fundamentalists. That would be those folks who think that all men should strive to be John Wayne in every facet of their lives.

I have a very good friend who is a Muslim from Turkey. He was genuinely surprised the first time that a hug between us was called for that I actively engaged. At that point I had already put in a lot of time in the movement and had gotten over my paranoia about hugging guys out in public.....
where somebody might see.
As he explained to me, in cultures like his it is actually unusual to see 2 men who are friends shake hands or greet each other in a way that does not involve hugging.

The lesson that I have learned over the years is how men are deprived of deep friendships with other men by this taboo. When that knowledge hit me I got over my objections to hugs in short order.

[Mikekoz13]

We're huggers in our house. It can be overwhelming to the uninitiated on their first visit.
We laughed like crazy at my Son's girlfriend the first time she came around about 6 months ago. She was in a line of huggers and i was last in line. She just looked overwhelmed. As I hugged her I simply said, "Sorry... it's just our way of making you feel like part of the Family"..... to which she dropped a big smile.

[Razor X]

The lesson that I have learned over the years is how men are deprived of deep friendships with other men by this taboo. When that knowledge hit me I got over my objections to hugs in short order.

It's not possible to have a deep friendship that doesn't involve hugging?   

[geoguy]

Thank you...  Truth be told, I've never heard of this movement, but it rings true in my heart.  Thanx you...

[old_hippie]

I am what you might call the touchy-feely type
I like to hug and be hugged and if the guy has and is ok with it I also like to rub beards

[buddha]

The lesson that I have learned over the years is how men are deprived of deep friendships with other men by this taboo. When that knowledge hit me I got over my objections to hugs in short order.

It's not possible to have a deep friendship that doesn't involve hugging?   

It all depends what each person's definition of a deep friendship is. I think that something has to be shared besides the fact that 2 guys work in the same place or enjoy talking politics or sports or like to exchange ideas about what types of computer software they run. My opinion.

I guess once I became a believer in hugging my friends I began to take some real comfort in it. And masculinity is not diminished by the practice. A fact.

[geoguy]

Well, I live in  South Africa.  Here, in some of the african cultures it is common to see 2 men walking along holding hands.  This is a sign of comerade-ship and of Safety...

[Razor X]

And masculinity is not diminished by the practice. A fact.

Was anybody arguing otherwise?

[ChallengeMe]

Budda, thank you for putting this out there! I totally agree. The younger men in our society have been raised in a very feminist culture. Many young men have not had fathers in their homes as role models. Most TV programs show men as wimps.

Colin Powell wrote a list of 18 Lessons from a very successful leader. Men should read this. Though his list is aimed at leaders, we can all learn something from it. I especially like #6 to support Budda's post:

http://www.littleafrica.com/career/powell.html

Lesson 6: "You don’t know what you can get away with until you try." You know the expression "it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission?" Well it’s true. Good leaders don’t wait for official blessing to try things out. They’re prudent, not reckless. But they also realize a fact of life in most organizations: If you ask enough people for permission, you’ll inevitably come up against someone who believes his job is to say "no". So the moral is, don’t ask.

I don't see this as a license to pursue excess. A man essentially has to regulate himself. The problem starts when he transfers some of that self-control to another person. He needlessly limits his own abilities by allowing in doubt to eat away at his confidence. He still has to think through on his decisions, anticipate the possible consequences, but if there is a possibility someone might not approve that doesn't put a halt to everything. It's just another factor to evaluate; perhaps irritating some third party is necessary. Mothers-in-law come to mind as good examples. 

[geoguy]

Challengeme, thats powerful stuff...  Thanx for the link...

[buddha]

And masculinity is not diminished by the practice. A fact.

Was anybody arguing otherwise?

Maybe not arguing but, and maybe I'm stereotyping in this case, in my experience when I have encountered a man who has a strong objection to physical contact between a male friend and himself it has been based on a fear of what society might think of this. Will they think that there is "something going on here"? How does that reflect on me? And from the looks of your avatar, Razor, it doesn't look to me as though you have a lot to fear from anyone.

There are exceptions to my stereotype rule of course. One year at the Chicago Men's Conference I had spoken in one of the workshops and what I had said brought me into contact with a guy when the workshop was over. He walked up and hugged me and there was something about it, when coupled with some things he said, that severely creeped me out. I avoided this dude the rest of the day. I was really troubled by the encounter, partly by what his side of it was and partly by my reaction. I thought about it a lot that night and the next day when I went back I saw him right off the bat and he saw me. He made a beeline toward me and at the point where he was just about to latch onto me I put out my hand and physically stopped him. I told him right off that I was troubled by what had happened the day before and he proceeds to start to read me the riot act. That, right there, told me I was dead on in my evaluation of his motives. I got into this guy's face and told him in no uncertain terms, so a 6 year old could have understood, exactly what my response would be were he to approach me again. Later one of the conference leaders told me that he wished he had the "balls" to say to this troll what I had said. He told me that the guy had been following him around all weekend and been in almost constant physical contact to the point where this "leader" was actually hiding out so as not to be seen or touched by this guy.

But this all goes back to the fact that a man has to make decisions about this kind of thing based on what he wants, not on what somebody else expects or what society dictates. Kinda the reason we're all here. So I'm not saying that you have to run around hugging all your friends if that kind of thing is something that you find objectionable. But what a men's movement guy would tell you is that I challenge you to look at the level of objection that you have and find out what is behind it.

[Mikekoz13]

Buddha-

I think it's kind of ironic that the "leader" you were talking about was "hiding"...... yet he was a leader at a men's movement where at least some of the main points were to stand up and be a man!
He should have done just what you did...... be a man and stand up to the problem. Sounds to me like this leader could have used a little lesson on being a real man himself.

[bubbadave3]

And masculinity is not diminished by the practice. A fact.

Was anybody arguing otherwise?

Maybe not arguing but, and maybe I'm stereotyping in this case, in my experience when I have encountered a man who has a strong objection to physical contact between a male friend and himself it has been based on a fear of what society might think of this. Will they think that there is "something going on here"? How does that reflect on me? And from the looks of your avatar, Razor, it doesn't look to me as though you have a lot to fear from anyone.

There are exceptions to my stereotype rule of course. One year at the Chicago Men's Conference I had spoken in one of the workshops and what I had said brought me into contact with a guy when the workshop was over. He walked up and hugged me and there was something about it, when coupled with some things he said, that severely creeped me out. I avoided this dude the rest of the day. I was really troubled by the encounter, partly by what his side of it was and partly by my reaction. I thought about it a lot that night and the next day when I went back I saw him right off the bat and he saw me. He made a beeline toward me and at the point where he was just about to latch onto me I put out my hand and physically stopped him. I told him right off that I was troubled by what had happened the day before and he proceeds to start to read me the riot act. That, right there, told me I was dead on in my evaluation of his motives. I got into this guy's face and told him in no uncertain terms, so a 6 year old could have understood, exactly what my response would be were he to approach me again. Later one of the conference leaders told me that he wished he had the "balls" to say to this troll what I had said. He told me that the guy had been following him around all weekend and been in almost constant physical contact to the point where this "leader" was actually hiding out so as not to be seen or touched by this guy.

But this all goes back to the fact that a man has to make decisions about this kind of thing based on what he wants, not on what somebody else expects or what society dictates. Kinda the reason we're all here. So I'm not saying that you have to run around hugging all your friends if that kind of thing is something that you find objectionable. But what a men's movement guy would tell you is that I challenge you to look at the level of objection that you have and find out what is behind it.

Buddha, I always make a point of asking before hugging someone that I don't know for the first time, (and subsequently if there's any question in my mind).  I don't want to be guilty of inadvertently violating someone's boundaries.  I lived through clergy sexual abuse as a teen, and have had to go through years of counseling to get over it, so I'm particularly careful about making sure that I don't violate someone's boundaries or inadvertently send the wrong message.  Sounds like this guy needs to learn some of that.