Sly Bald Guys Forum
Discussions About Being Bald => General Discussion => Topic started by: tomgallagher on September 25, 2008, 11:34:19 AM
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Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject one way or another.?
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I saw this on another forum:
Just think of the new $700 billion plan
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed
by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts .
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Kindest personal regards,
Birk
T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
Actually the math doesn't work out, but when has details ever stopped us from a good story
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Well Dave, with all due respect, I think that that is like standing around on the Titanic and talking about what we could have done or what we would like to do but the fact is IMO if we don't fix this huge hole in the boat right now we like the Titanic are going down and we will probably take a lot of smaller boats (countries) down with us. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you but the water is up to our ankles and we have to do something now.
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That was a distinctly not serious post from another forum.
In the UK I think a big part of the problem has been the media hyping the situation to make better news. When stocks start selling for less it isn't the end of the world. But people assume that stock prices=real money in their pocket and start panicking.
I'm against regulation for the sake of it, but I think the world got into this mess because a few people made really bad decisions about where they were going to invest. They got stung bad and other banks lost confidence. Once one of the big guys starts playing it cagey with their money, all the others jump on the band wagon. I'm not sure that the worlds finances are any worse than at the end of the '80s. Plenty got stung then but most markets bounced back.
I think that governments should invest at home on infrastrucure at times like these. People get a chance for employment in a worhtwhile job and the nation is in a better state when the economy picks up.
I also think that we have problems in the UK with the number of migrant workers we admit. We allow any EU national free entry to the country and they are entitled to work and claim benefits as per a native. We get a lot of Eastern Europeans at the moment coming into Britain rather than anywhere else in the EU as we're seen as an easy touch. I don't mind people coming here to work (if the locals won't get off their backsides and do a job) but the benefits side is bleeding the country dry. That said, I think that the UK benefits system is a little too open for everyone.
And our import policy is too slack
And we aren't patriotic enough about British products
And it rains a lot
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Well Tom.... I have a few thoughts..........
I don't like the idea that the average American has to pay more taxes to bail out the rich guys.
I think some of what these guys did was criminal and they should be prosecuted accordingly.
I think putting a large part of the housing market in America into the hands of the Federal Government is a mistake.
I think when President Bush was speaking last night and he said that when the market went back up in the future and the property holdings were then sold off by the Government "every single dollar of tax money will be repaid" is a joke. Even if they make the money back they'll give it to some special interest group.
I think the fact that irresponsible people have defaulted on their loans shouldn't leave those that do meet their financial obligations holding the "bag of sh*t".
I think this will turn into a political discussion verty shortly and will be pulled by the Mods..... ;) ;)
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The biggest problem was the ambitious goals in the late 90s to make housing affordable (i.e. free) for everyone. Fannie & Freddie were instructed to make loans available to everyone (125% LTV, 0% down, no proof of income required, teaser rates, etc etc). Unfortunately, this practice did not change in the 2000's. In fact, as there was a race to get into housing, companies began building new homes at an obscene pace. Prices kept going up (supply & demand).
Well, as people started defaulting, home values declined and people found it easier to walk away from a home they were upside down in. Did homes all of a sudden become worthless? No, it's because of the gains experienced in the last 3+ years were artifically overstated based on the above. The home value decline is purely a market correction.
Plenty of blame to go around....mortgage companies not scrutinizing potential lenders thoroughly enough and lenders not reading the contracts they're signing or taking on more debt then they could afford.
NOTE: The above is not a political statement, it's an economic statement.
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This is a bi-partisan problem and anybody that makes it political ought to be ashamed of themselves. I for one will not do that.
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Yep that's how we got here. How do we fix it.?
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I agree with Schro.
We had similar in the UK and the idea of people owning their own home (or at least having a mortgage on most of it) was a well established phenomenon. We are unlike most of the rest of Europe in that respect where many people rent.
Do you sacrifice the fools that made loans in the wrong places and have subsequently gone bust? I can't see a way to retrieve the situation without someone taking the fall. If it isn't the people that started this mess, then it will end up being the tax payer (on both sides of the pond).
Unfortunately some of these big financial houses will take down a lot of smaller guys if they fall.
I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment further - I have trouble balancing my bank statement every month!
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Looks like it is a moot point. The bail out is going thru according to the news.
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This is a bi-partisan problem and anybody that makes it political ought to be ashamed of themselves. I for one will not do that.
I agree completely!!!!
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Actually the math doesn't work out, but when has details ever stopped us from a good story
Whoever did that divided 85 billion by 200 thousand instead of 200 million. Even if they would give the entire 700 billion to the American public, each person would only get 3500. so these people that say they should give the money to the people don't understand that it would make zero difference, most people would go buy some toys and we would be in the same situation that we are in now.
anyways, with the deal going through, there isn't a whole lot that we can do.
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Tough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
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No
Tough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
That is an unfair statement. Not everyone that has a hard time paying their mortgage now could not afford it when they took it out.
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NoTough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
That is an unfair statement. Not everyone that has a hard time paying their mortgage now could not afford it when they took it out.
Disagree, hardly an unfair statement. People default on loans in both good & bad economic times. Individual circumstances differ, I get that. However, the number of people that are walking away from homes despite the fact that they would re-fi 2, 3, 4 times over and park the new beemer in the garage or just use the latest re-fi to pay off their credit cards during these recent times is staggering.
Look, people that are in hard times I feel for, despite what some people may think about me. But people that have put themselves in this situation because of irresponsibility (both citizens and financial institutions) I have little to no sympathy for.
OK, blast away.
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NoTough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
That is an unfair statement. Not everyone that has a hard time paying their mortgage now could not afford it when they took it out.
Disagree, hardly an unfair statement. People default on loans in both good & bad economic times. Individual circumstances differ, I get that. However, the number of people that are walking away from homes despite the fact that they would re-fi 2, 3, 4 times over and park the new beemer in the garage or just use the latest re-fi to pay off their credit cards during these recent times is staggering.
Look, people that are in hard times I feel for, despite what some people may think about me. But people that have put themselves in this situation because of irresponsibility (both citizens and financial institutions) I have little to no sympathy for.
OK, blast away.
I totally agree with that.
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I'm have some definite opinions about this issue; but I don't want to get kicked off the board :) Suffice to say, I'm ready for the depression or recession or what ever it ends up being. I just got a couple of rabbits from a neighbor and I put in an order for some baby chicks. Now I gotta find a goat and I think our food needs will be covered.
I've moved my mother in law in (cause she gets a monthly SS check) so my mortgage will get paid even if the business goes south ... If the car gets repo'd I still got my paid-for truck to get to town if I need to .. I think I'm ready. All I need is a strait razor and a sharpening belt so I can keep sly if there is a run on razor blades ..
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I'm have some definite opinions about this issue; but I don't want to get kicked off the board :) Suffice to say, I'm ready for the depression or recession or what ever it ends up being. I just got a couple of rabbits from a neighbor and I put in an order for some baby chicks. Now I gotta find a goat and I think our food needs will be covered.
I've moved my mother in law in (cause she gets a monthly SS check) so my mortgage will get paid even if the business goes south ... If the car gets repo'd I still got my paid-for truck to get to town if I need to .. I think I'm ready. All I need is a strait razor and a sharpening belt so I can keep sly if there is a run on razor blades ..
AWESOME POST.
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NoTough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
That is an unfair statement. Not everyone that has a hard time paying their mortgage now could not afford it when they took it out.
Absolutely right on that. When we built 3 years ago we could more than afford our mortgage payment. Then the real estate crisis hit which directly affected my industry. I specialized in real estate termite inspections and went from about 9-10 a day to less than 5 a month. We had some tough times but are now starting to see the light of day. But the real estate crisis was not my fault nor the fault of anyone in my industry. I'm not looking for anyone to bail me out however to lump EVERYONE who has fallen behind on a mortgage in the same basket is an incorrect analyis.
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NoTough call on how to fix it. I'm against government getting into the housing finance business, however the ability to SENSIBLY borrow money is vital to the economy. If Fannie & Freddie shut their doors, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, IMHO. I know those two sentences may seem contradictory, but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
That is an unfair statement. Not everyone that has a hard time paying their mortgage now could not afford it when they took it out.
Disagree, hardly an unfair statement. People default on loans in both good & bad economic times. Individual circumstances differ, I get that. However, the number of people that are walking away from homes despite the fact that they would re-fi 2, 3, 4 times over and park the new beemer in the garage or just use the latest re-fi to pay off their credit cards during these recent times is staggering.
Look, people that are in hard times I feel for, despite what some people may think about me. But people that have put themselves in this situation because of irresponsibility (both citizens and financial institutions) I have little to no sympathy for.
OK, blast away.
Hammerdrill,
Sorry about your situation. The above is my second post on this topic.
As I've said before, Generally speaking, generalizations are, in general, generally incorrect.
Glad things are improving for you.
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Thanks man..Yes things are slowly but surely improving for us.
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I will say this: We own a small business providing advertising products for other small businesses. Well, businesses aren't exactly throwing money at me for stuff like that anymore. We are doing business, just at about 60 - 70% of what we were doing a year ago.
Our solution: save the house and the vehicles at all costs. If the DirecTV, the internet, the eating out and all that other stuff has to go, then so be it. We need to read more anyway. LOL Also, I went and got another job to help out. Do you think I enjoy running a small business AND working three 12 hour overnight shifts a week? In all fairness though, I have been an x-ray tech for 16 years so I did already have a marketable skill set.
Everyone's unique situation is just that. Unique. Honestly, what ever happens in DC probably will not have an enormous impact on me personally, because my mortgage is current and my bills are getting paid.(barely) It will impact me indirectly though. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
And NO I am not happy to spend my money to bailout people with "golden parachutes" who were pretty obviously only looking out for themselves.
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gaslick, I'm in the same issue as you. All my bills are current and up to date. I'm a little uneducated about the bailout bill, is the US goverment going further into debt or is it up to us to pay even more money either every month or once a year to bail out the mortgage companies ?
sorry for the silly question.
Thanks
Jim
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While I'm a huge believer of less government and less government involvement in the markets, I do fear that if we don't bail out the organizations we're going to end up hurting the small and medium sized business owners that are vital to America's and the world's economy. What this mostly comes down to is that people are panicking and causing things to be worse than they actually are. Yes, some large banks failed, but in the U.S. your money is safe unless through FDIC unless you invested in some of the financial institutions that failed. Though, a lot of people are reacting on emotion and not logic regarding their investments in other markets. Sure, money will be harder to get for about a year and that will cause a slump in the economy, but if people weren't reacting as much, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Yet, people are making it a big deal, so if we don't bail out these companies, they're going to bring down the markets based on emotion, not financial logic.
Don't believe me? Look at Warren Buffet, he just invested $5 billion in Goldman Sachs. Why? Because he sees that their stock (value) dropped based on emotional trading and some small screw up that can be fixed with the long term.
I'm not trying to paint a picture that everything is going to be rosey, because it's not, but it's not as bad as the media is making it out to be, except that it could drive it to be that bad. So, to get to my point, I think the bailout is to provide more psychological comfort to the world, thus preventing the reaction that could occur if they don't bail them out, than the bailout actually brings in regards to real financial support.
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Tyler,
I understand and believe your statement on this but is this going to cost the american population an extra tax bill to give everyone some pyschological relief?
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people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place. Again, fault on both sides.
I'm leaning with ya Schro.....there was a day (to which we have now returned) when the standards for borrowing were straight forward. People WHO REALLY WANTED THAT NEW HOUSE, but could not afford it....couldn't get the loan. Then came the fancy schmancy sub-prime and other creative "B" paper stuff....and those people WHO REALLY WANTED THAT NEW HOUSE, but could not afford it.....got the loan.....
Buying that dream home is so much more of an EMOTIONAL decision....and if you "qualify" it takes a pretty sophisticated and conservative thinker to slam on the breaks and say, "Ya know what....this prolly ain't a good idea."
So the fault is shared.....there's a CERTAIN degree where the borrower should have "known better"....but putting those "creative" qualifiable loans out there to ROPE in those who would otherwise not qualify shares the larger responsibility IMO.
As far as AIG.....they need to be bailed out....if they were to FAIL that would be a GLOBAL economic catastrophe.
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Im a bit of a news junky. The way I understand it, the banks making the mortgage loans don't have any security to back the loans due to devaluation (among other things). Banks get money to loan from other banks. Right now banks are not loaning money to each other so we are experiencing a credit freeze. Our economy is based largly on the ability to borrow. People use credit for everything. If we can't use credit we don't buy stuff. The problem is that the banks don't know what their stuff is worth for a few various reasons so their balance sheets are all screwed up which means they don't have any confidence so they arn't loaning. The govt plans to buy up all that bad stuff so the banks know what they are actually worth and will start loaning money again. Thing is .. if the gov't does this that is no guarantee that the banks will loan money like they did before. Most likely they will have very strict credit requirements which means it will still be very hard to borrow which means we're gunna have a period of recession regardless. Personally I wish they wouldn't do anything for a while longer because even the *experts* disagree on what the effect would be. The only thing they seem to agree on is its gunna get worse before it gets better.
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Tyler,
I understand and believe your statement on this but is this going to cost the american population an extra tax bill to give everyone some pyschological relief?
Unfortunately, the tax bill will more likely be a less hit to the American public than the hit that would occur if we let other industries fail around out side of the financial industry. Why? Well, if we let them fail, the amount of people that go on welfare and public assistance will end up causing a much bigger tax bill.
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This is all to complicated for this good old southern boy.
I am a news junkie though. I watch FoxNews and read Drudge religiously. I understand what is happening and why it needs to be addressed, but doesn't most of come down to poor decisions by the companies AND the consumers. Here's my point:
When we bought our house 5 years ago we qualified for a $225,000 house. We actually bought a $129,000 house. Just because we could QUALIFY for it doesn't mean we should BUY it. We also didn't do any thing "Creative" either like 100% financing, interest only, ARMs and all that other stuff created to let people buy more than they could afford.
We have a plain old vanilla 30 year fixed.
If we had bought a maxed out home, we would be in far worse shape than we are.
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I live in rural Oregon so houses are quite a bit cheaper. Our house cost 79k so the payment on our standard mortgage is very affordable. In fact we could not rent for cheaper than our mortgage payment. We started with an adjustable but I got out a couple of years ago just before it adjusted. I think there are a lot of consumers who forgot that it was going to adjust and .. yer right, now they can't afford their house! What I don't understand is the bank's reluctance to refinance these people into standard mortgages. Seems like they almost want to loose money!
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I know that probably most of you are familiar with the problems of WaMu. Well, it has just been announced that JP Morgan Chase is buying the bulk of WaMu. I don't bank with them, but I feel for the employees at WaMu's headquarters here in Seattle. While I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle became a regional outpost for Chase, I would think that there will be hundreds or more who will be laid off as a result. For us Washingtonians, it marks the end to the LAST major bank headquartered in this state.
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I live in rural Oregon so houses are quite a bit cheaper. Our house cost 79k so the payment on our standard mortgage is very affordable.
Wow, home values here are really inflated, even now it is hard to find a 1/4 acre lot for under 100k and something with a house on it for under 180k
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I love Oregon.
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I just knew that someone would bring up this issue. I was thinking about it, but thankfully someone else did it for me.
Well here it goes.......The Government needs to stay the hell out of this. as in NO bail out. They need to look into the lending practices of the companies and if needed charge these companies and their leadership with said crimes. There has been rumor's of, and evidence to, the fact that they have fraudulently changed loan applications, allowing people that they knew could never afford to pay said loan off. Just because a company gets so big and powerful, and starts to fail due to their own fault, does not mean the Government needs to intervene. We need to let the market handle this....If it causes a economic downfall r even a recession, then it does.
Would you also call for a multi billion dollar bail out of Microsoft if they made some bad business decisions and their stock fell to $1.00 a share?........
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^^^^^
O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
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My 2 cents
Where the hell are the Kuwaiti’s??
Sorry SOB's :Xo!
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Would you also call for a multi billion dollar bail out of Microsoft if they made some bad business decisions and their stock fell to $1.00 a share?........
I think that's the major point and a good one.
Yeah...Microsoft...like AIG if they FAILED would cause a GLOBAL economic disaster, the likes of which the world ain't seen since the great depression.
But then again, what they are also considering is what sort of precedence will be set.
Govt. bailouts take the RISK out of doing business. We can't have companies simply saying, "Ahhhhh, C'mon....let's go for it....if we phuk up, the govt will bail us out."
I dunno, man. Personally, when it comes to a GLOBAL behemoth like AIG (or Microsoft) when global economic fallout is an option....that ain't no easy decision to just say, "Screw them....they're the one's who phucked up."
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Would you also call for a multi billion dollar bail out of Microsoft if they made some bad business decisions and their stock fell to $1.00 a share?........
I think that's the major point and a good one.
Yeah...Microsoft...like AIG if they FAILED would cause a GLOBAL economic disaster, the likes of which the world ain't seen since the great depression.
Govt. bailouts take the RISK out of doing business. We can't have companies simply saying, "Ahhhhh, C'mon....let's go for it....if we phuk up, the govt will bail us out."
Disagree. Bail outs don't take out the risk, it shifts the risk ..... to you & me, the citizens of the country.
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but people that can't pay back a loan never should have been granted a loan in the first place.
OMG, common sense, and the EXPERTS couldn't figure that out....DUH.
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I take that back. They knew it but the greedy bastards just didn't care about the rest of us, only themselves.
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I know that probably most of you are familiar with the problems of WaMu. Well, it has just been announced that JP Morgan Chase is buying the bulk of WaMu. I don't bank with them, but I feel for the employees at WaMu's headquarters here in Seattle. While I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle became a regional outpost for Chase, I would think that there will be hundreds or more who will be laid off as a result. For us Washingtonians, it marks the end to the LAST major bank headquartered in this state.
Marsh, it's a shame. I am a Wamu banker, and although JP Morgan is explaining that the transition for wamu bankers should be "seamless", I'm very worried. The good news - I don't have much money in my bank account! ;D
My thoughts go out to the employees.
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We used to bank with WaMu....but I felt their slogan should have been "F You".
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A rock and a hard place. No bail out and the unemployment rate goes to 20% or more and we return to the days of the soup kitchens and guys selling apples on street corners and the foreclosure rate going thru the roof. Bail out and the greedy bastards that are responsible for this mess get away with it. A rock and a hard place.
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If our whole economy is hinged on a single Company, or even several, then that is not saying much for our economic platform. I do see how this housing crisis can cause a lot of strain in the economy, but I hope we can ride it out till it settles itself. As far as common sense goes.....There were many people that felt that they could have never in a million years thought that they could have been able to afford a house. That part of the "American Dream" was out of their reach. Along comes a banker or housing loan officer and tells them that they can. The loan people forge, nudge, fluff, what ever you want to call it, their paper work to get them approved for the loan. Do you blame the people that wanted the house or do you blame the company that loaned them the money?
I want to put the majority of the blame on the lender.....they took the chance and loaned the money, now it is time for them to take the consequences. If you loan a someone $500, and they say they will pay you back and they don't, who do you blame? Who had the final decision?
If not bailing out these companies causes us to sink into an economic depression, then so be it. We shall reap what we sow.
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What you mean "WE" white man.
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I went to the bank today to order some new checks, and I was talking to one of the loan officers while I was waiting to be seen and he was saying that they are expecting a run if the bail out doesn't go through. It is scary when the banks are worried about runs.
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I went to the bank today to order some new checks, and I was talking to one of the loan officers while I was waiting to be seen and he was saying that they are expecting a run if the bail out doesn't go through. It is scary when the banks are worried about runs.
Eat more fiber.
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Personally, I've been on the phone with my stockbroker more the past two weeks, than the past two months.
buy! buy! BUY!
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Personally, I've been on the phone with my stockbroker more the past two weeks, than the past two months.
buy! buy! BUY!
I agree!!!! It's a great tiem to buy. Think back to 1983 when there was the mini-crash. I remember people in my office crying uncontrollably and wondering what they were going to do.
I'll bet the patient ones made out like bandits.
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In light of the supposed bail out and the rest of the crap going on in our nation I thought this video would be appropriate. Sorry if its a bit too redneck for some..but I think you'll get the message from Merle Haggard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHJ41ktt3Q
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I'm taking an educated risk and buying some financial stocks. Some of them are fundamentally strong, just being dragged down as a sector.
My google is like a roller coaster. Don't buy that unless you have a strong stomach or a barf bag! lol
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Would you also call for a multi billion dollar bail out of Microsoft if they made some bad business decisions and their stock fell to $1.00 a share?........
I think that's the major point and a good one.
Yeah...Microsoft...like AIG if they FAILED would cause a GLOBAL economic disaster, the likes of which the world ain't seen since the great depression.
Govt. bailouts take the RISK out of doing business. We can't have companies simply saying, "Ahhhhh, C'mon....let's go for it....if we phuk up, the govt will bail us out."
Disagree. Bail outs don't take out the risk, it shifts the risk ..... to you & me, the citizens of the country.
Well, yeah....true....
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buy! buy! BUY!
Funny thing is most people know the "BUY LOW, SELL HIGH" thing....
But in reality--since it's so EMOTIONALLY driven.....a whole lot of folks do just the opposite they get scared and liquidate to cash equivelants.
The phones at our office are ringing off the hook....not to buy...but clients freaking out...wanting to get out all together....
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Yeah , and look at all the Wall Street CEO's that have walked in the last few months with Millions and that's not counting all the ones with the golden parachutes....My God, Alan Fishman, the new CEO of WaMu, has been on the job 3 weeks and could walk away right now with over 18 million in salary and bonuses.....give me a break !!
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While I normally am not in favor of the government bailing out the private sector, my opinion is that this situation warrants some type of intervention. If AIG were to have failed, it would have had far-reaching affects all around the planet. They claim that breaking up AIG and selling off the pieces to the private sector could bring in more than the AIG bailout price tag. But, my opinion is that the overhead that comes with government management of the process will likely preclude any possibility of breaking even.
They let Lehman fall because they were somewhat self-contained. But, IMO avoiding this next bailout may likely lead to further tighening of credit, which will stiffle business's ability to function, nevermind expand, and drive us into a much deeper and longer economic downturn.
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While I normally am not in favor of the government bailing out the private sector, my opinion is that this situation warrants some type of intervention. If AIG were to have failed, it would have had far-reaching affects all around the planet. They claim that breaking up AIG and selling off the pieces to the private sector could bring in more than the AIG bailout price tag. But, my opinion is that the overhead that comes with government management of the process will likely preclude any possibility of breaking even.
They let Lehman fall because they were somewhat self-contained. But, IMO avoiding this next bailout may likely lead to further tighening of credit, which will stiffle business's ability to function, nevermind expand, and drive us into a much deeper and longer economic downturn.
O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
Agreed !
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buy! buy! BUY!
Funny thing is most people know the "BUY LOW, SELL HIGH" thing....
But in reality--since it's so EMOTIONALLY driven.....a whole lot of folks do just the opposite they get scared and liquidate to cash equivelants.
The phones at our office are ringing off the hook....not to buy...but clients freaking out...wanting to get out all together....
Now is the absolutely worst time to get out. What you do is buy good, quality companies at a good price.
I've picked up one financial stock (big bank) last week after the 400 pt fallout and now it is $12 higher than I paid for it. Watching it closely though. ???
I read today that buying stock for the long term is no longer a viable investment strategy. Stocks are traded so emotionally. I have my mutuals and all that long term stuff set up. I keep around $4000 - $5000 in cash available just for these opportunities. Snatched up some good deals the last two weeks.
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buy! buy! BUY!
Funny thing is most people know the "BUY LOW, SELL HIGH" thing....
But in reality--since it's so EMOTIONALLY driven.....a whole lot of folks do just the opposite they get scared and liquidate to cash equivelants.
The phones at our office are ringing off the hook....not to buy...but clients freaking out...wanting to get out all together....
Now is the absolutely worst time to get out. What you do is buy good, quality companies at a good price.
I've picked up one financial stock (big bank) last week after the 400 pt fallout and now it is $12 higher than I paid for it. Watching it closely though. ???
I read today that buying stock for the long term is no longer a viable investment strategy. Stocks are traded so emotionally. I have my mutuals and all that long term stuff set up. I keep around $4000 - $5000 in cash available just for these opportunities. Snatched up some good deals the last two weeks.
It takes a real contrarian to buy in this market, although it will likely pay off over the long haul.
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I've been contrarian my whole life! ;D
Zig when everyone else is Zagging
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I went to the bank today to order some new checks, and I was talking to one of the loan officers while I was waiting to be seen and he was saying that they are expecting a run if the bail out doesn't go through. It is scary when the banks are worried about runs.
Eat more fiber.
LOL :*)) :*))
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As far as AIG.....they need to be bailed out....if they were to FAIL that would be a GLOBAL economic catastrophe.
I dunno, man. Personally, when it comes to a GLOBAL behemoth like AIG (or Microsoft) when global economic fallout is an option....that ain't no easy decision to just say, "Screw them....they're the one's who phucked up."
No bail out and the unemployment rate goes to 20% or more and we return to the days of the soup kitchens and guys selling apples on street corners and the foreclosure rate going thru the roof.
bailing out the private sector, my opinion is that this situation warrants some type of intervention. If AIG were to have failed, it would have had far-reaching affects all around the planet. ...avoiding this next bailout may likely lead to...a much deeper and longer economic downturn.
WE'RE IN GOOD COMPANY, BOYS.....I'D SAY WARREN BUFFET IS PRETTY SMART...FRONT PAGE CNN TODAY:
Buffett to Congress: Act or face historic meltdown:
Billionaire Warren Buffett told congressional negotiators that if they can't agree on a proposed financial bailout, the nation will face "its biggest financial meltdown in American history,"
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Where does all this crap stop?
Some people need to go to prison over this and I mean prison where covering your a$$ takes on a whole new meaning. The problem here is that George is filling everyone with the fear of what will happen if this "HANDOUT" doesn't go through. IMO if some real investigation were done we would find that a lot of our elected leaders have their hands in this up to the elbows, that's why they're in such a hurry to make it go away. They're getting pressure to vote this thing through in a hurry just like with the patriot act. That, in itself tells me that something is definitely shady here.
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I agree. If law enforcement started turning over rocks they would find a lot of snakes.
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Everyone depends on our gov't too much to make things right. It will all get swept under the rug before its done and over with. Always does..so why stop now.
The way I see it. If the US fails...we all fall. No one to blame but the big boys...but they will be sitting comfortably.
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I don't disagree, yooz guys.....
But the fact remains that allowed to FAIL, which we would all prefer in principle, the alternative is economic disaster.
And if ya think that's a hoax....then is AIG really failing?.....and if you go there then yer flirting with those who think Bush and the CIA brought the twin towers down on 9/11, using Islam as a scapegoat. (ya might even believe in a second shooter in Dallas, 1963).
Regardless of Bush.....who needs to be held accountable....yada yada yada....
Economic fallout is a harsh alternative, man....that's the crux of my ramblings
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IMO economic disaster is coming either way. So what if AIG and the rest of these behemoths are allowed to fail? They'll be broken up into their basic parts and sold off and maybe then we won't have this system of monopolies that we have now, where one big company starts buying out a whole bunch of smaller ones until they control not just a corner but the entire market. Maybe we would go back to the days of healthy competition and that would as surely bring consumer prices down as a $700 Billion dollar handout to, among others, Paulson, Goldman, Sachs.
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
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...the bailout bill
has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya?
umm...that the Republicans favored it less than the Dems? :/O
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umm...that the Republicans favored it less than the Dems? :/O
So it would appear.
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Not to get too political, but from what I understand, this failure is because Nancy Palosi, started speaking against the Bush policies. So there may have been some backlash because of that.
But while I know there is a policy here against religious topics, I would suggest that those here who are praying people start praying for our leaders (BOTH PARTIES) for wisdom and to quit the back biting.
Yes, it does suck that the taxpayers are stuck with the bailout, if it happens. But I don't want to get my next meal from a soup kitchen. I am blessed that I am still employed as a warehouse manager at a carpet store. I am paid hourly. But I feel for my sales people who are on commission. They are hurting. But if the economy goes down, people like me will be out of jobs because people will be only able to buy necessities. They won't be buying carpet.
There is a great trickle down effect. Many industries will be affected. Do we want Great Depression 2008? THINK ABOUT IT! I think that this time around, it will also be way more violent than in the 1930's when people helped each other out. There is way less of the mindset in today's society. It is a meaner, more violent place!
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Aside from from Bush's own party telling him to get "effed".....this is the best argument I've heard/seen so far in favor of Bankruptcy over Bailout.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html
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Aside from from Bush's own party telling him to get "effed".....this is the best argument I've heard/seen so far in favor of Bankruptcy over Bailout.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html
Now THAT article makes sense... to me........
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The Bail Out fails to pass. The Dow Jones average falls 800 points in the same day. Tighten your seat belts gang.
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The Bail Out fails to pass. The Dow Jones average falls 800 points in the same day. Tighten your seat belts gang.
I'm holding on tightly Tom...... even as my retirement account swirls down the Democrat/Republican toilet of life............
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And as usual in Washington no one wants to take responsibility and so let the blame games begin :Xo!
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With all this shight, I feel like Jack and Rose at the end of Titanic...
When the ship's goin' down and Leonardo De Caprio says here we go....
take a deep breath!
When did I sign up for a trip on the Titanic...geez...not fun times?!? :D
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Two words......Social...Darwinism. Those institutions and people not capable of surviving, shouldn't.
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(https://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi255.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh157%2FTimmj%2Feconomy-hint.gif&hash=18c356d94a266e100b46b6d29ccc0b770c79348e)
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And as usual in Washington no one wants to take responsibility and so let the blame games begin :Xo!
Yep ! Even in a bi-partisan proposal :/O
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IMO and I strongly mean IMO, I look at the billions of dollars thats pissed away elsewhere and think why is the American taxpayers money even considered to be used to bailout these SOB's.
Look at the money that is spent on non-citizens in medical when myself or my kid would be turned away if we don't have insurance... the billions in federal money given away to stupid sh*t like the polygamous group in texas that built the millions of dollars whore house. Then we spend millions of dollars to investigate these a-holes in Washington after the fact.
They have other places they can get money to bailout rather than my pockets. Hell, put a Nasa project off a couple years... I ain't lost sh*t on mars!!!! :XX
Just a thought!
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... I ain't lost sh*t on mars!!!! :XX
:*)) :*))
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IMO and I strongly mean IMO, I look at the billions of dollars thats pissed away elsewhere and think why is the American taxpayers money even considered to be used to bailout these SOB's.
Look at the money that is spent on non-citizens in medical when myself or my kid would be turned away if we don't have insurance... the billions in federal money given away to stupid sh*t like the polygamous group in texas that built the millions of dollars whore house. Then we spend millions of dollars to investigate these a-holes in Washington after the fact.
They have other places they can get money to bailout rather than my pockets. Hell, put a Nasa project off a couple years... I ain't lost sh*t on mars!!!! :XX
Just a thought!
amen brother
:*)) :*)) :*))
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
Sorry, I know I am breaking a rule here, but this post is purely two points of fact:
#1. What would you expect NPR to say?
#2. There are enough Democrats in the House to pass this by themselves. They didn't need a SINGLE Republican vote if they voted on party lines.
So, given the two above, to blame the Republicans for this is shameful partisanship. >:(
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
Sorry, I know I am breaking a rule here, but this post is purely two points of fact:
#1. What would you expect NPR to say?
#2. There are enough Democrats in the House to pass this by themselves. They didn't need a SINGLE Republican vote if they voted on party lines.
So, given the two above, to blame the Republicans for this is shameful partisanship. >:(
SCHRO........... the voice of reason. O0
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
Sorry, I know I am breaking a rule here, but this post is purely two points of fact:
#1. What would you expect NPR to say?
#2. There are enough Democrats in the House to pass this by themselves. They didn't need a SINGLE Republican vote if they voted on party lines.
So, given the two above, to blame the Republicans for this is shameful partisanship. >:(
LOL...I wasn't going to say anything but....
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Thing is...it's not only bailing out the SOB's...
this will effect us ALL!
Jobs, savings, 401k retirement funds, non 401 k retirement funds, federal money available, local money being spent..
and more importantly peoples comfort level on their futures...
it's a big deal and a trickle affect...
we will ALL feel this..
even if you don't have a cent in savings or a retirement fund..
Let's hope something can be worked out!
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It's frightening to think about how the terrible politicians that got us into this mess (both parties) are the same ones attempting to get us out of it. I have no confidence in their ability to do so.
Granted, it's primarily the actions of the large financial institituions that did the most damage, but the lack of proper government oversight and policies allowed the abuse to take place.
Here's a real-life example: The guy who was supposed to sell me his house last week and backed out at the last minute, did so because he had zero equity in the house. (long story) But, the biggest (of several) reason for this was that he given a negative-amortization mortgage at age 45. That is simply rediculous. These mortgages result in the amount of principle owed increasing instead of decreasing over time. They are only applicable for seniors, where the life expectancy of the person is less than the term of the loan.
So, this guy's mortgage principle kept going up until it reached the point where the amount owed exceeded the fair market value. It should be illegal to sell one of these mortgages to someone under 60 or maybe even 70.
Now, this guys intends to just it go to foreclosure and those of us that pay our bills on time are expected to bail them out.
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Thing is...it's not only bailing out the SOB's...
this will effect us ALL!
Jobs, savings, 401k retirement funds, non 401 k retirement funds, federal money available, local money being spent..
and more importantly peoples comfort level on their futures...
it's a big deal and a trickle affect...
we will ALL feel this..
even if you don't have a cent in savings or a retirement fund..
Let's hope something can be worked out!
Amen Andre!
I gotta tell you, that I despise both parties because of their partisan politics. They need to grow up, get over it and do the right thing. Or is it more important to have it only their way when in reality it is going to hit the little guy in a big way? I wish they would get over themselves and cut the Bull@#%t and get the job done!
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
Sorry, I know I am breaking a rule here, but this post is purely two points of fact:
#1. What would you expect NPR to say?
#2. There are enough Democrats in the House to pass this by themselves. They didn't need a SINGLE Republican vote if they voted on party lines.
So, given the two above, to blame the Republicans for this is shameful partisanship. >:(
Sorry Schro, it's not about blaming anybody, it's about a factual count. The number of Republicans who voted Nay on the bill was greater than the number of Dems. Conversely, the number of Dems voting Yea on the bill was greater than the number of GOPers. I applaud the Republicans in the house for voting this abortion down. Now, if the Dems follow suit we might get something fair.
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4pm Monday, NPR (WI) just announced that the bailout bill has just been defeated.....BY THE REPUBLICANS! What does that tell ya? His own party told him to get effed. I guess we'll see what happens.
Sorry, I know I am breaking a rule here, but this post is purely two points of fact:
#1. What would you expect NPR to say?
#2. There are enough Democrats in the House to pass this by themselves. They didn't need a SINGLE Republican vote if they voted on party lines.
So, given the two above, to blame the Republicans for this is shameful partisanship. >:(
Sorry Schro, it's not about blaming anybody, it's about a factual count. The number of Republicans who voted Nay on the bill was greater than the number of Dems. Conversely, the number of Dems voting Yea on the bill was greater than the number of GOPers. I applaud the Republicans in the house for voting this abortion down. Now, if the Dems follow suit we might get something fair.
No apologies necessary, Buddha. I know you were only pointing out what NPR said.
I was just incensed about the reasons being thrown around as to why this did not pass.
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the bailout helps the candidacy of Obama
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the bailout helps the candidacy of Obama
I'm really sure that there's no fact behind that statement. I'd retort, but politics is not allowed here.
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So the stock market fell 777 points yesterday after they killed the bail-out bill. Now the market has recovered as of about 11:30 am Pacific time to about 440 points. I have my opinion about this, but could one of you financial wizards explain it? I would think that it would fall further. I was not expecting this.
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I am NOT a financial wizard by any stretch but we can pick up clues by the following headlines today (see underlined):
Stocks rallied today as investors scooped up shares battered in the bloodletting that followed Congress' failure to pass a $700 billion bank rescue plan.....
And
Stocks rallied Tuesday, with the Dow jumping 485 points on bets that Congress will pass a version of the government's $700 billion package, following Monday's crushing defeat.
So stocks tumbled yesterday.....but there was/is still hope of a bailout, meaning expectation of stocks rallying. At the opening of the market, the ol' "BUY LOW / SELL HIGH" kicks in. Hence their, scooping up battered shares
Had there not been talk about a "new version" and the bill was perceived to have been permanently killed.....the market would tend to continue downward as investors keep their distance.
That's my non-wizard, 9-years-in-the-industry take on it.
The market tends to move as Wallstreet expects or fears it will move.....but ironically, it is Wallstreet's action based on those fears/expectation that ultimately FULFILLS those fears/expectations.
If Wallstreet fears an event will cause a "tumble" in stocks....it is their selling off shares that actually causes the "tumble."
Conversely, If W.S. expects an event will cause a rallying, it is their scooping up shares that actually causes the rally.
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As of present, the market seems to be driven by the presence or absence of "the bailout". IMO, if "the bailout" passes and proves ineffective, I think we'll see some drops like none before.
Short-term credit availability is already getting tight, and inventories (or the lack thereof) will begin to show the affects of this soon unless some kind of solution arrives.
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I repeat my previous post:
buy! BUY! BUY!!!!!
I've gotten some great stocks at bargain basement prices! I am currently in the black. Everytime it dips, I buy some more. I've been buying two companies in particular. Have picked up several hundred shares of each that I normally would not have been able to afford.
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I repeat my previous post:
buy! BUY! BUY!!!!!
I've gotten some great stocks at bargain basement prices! I am currently in the black. Everytime it dips, I buy some more. I've been buying two companies in particular. Have picked up several hundred shares of each that I normally would not have been able to afford.
The contrarian strikes again. I'm not selling but still not buying. I just have this feeling that the worst is yet to come ...
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Honestly, I'm not sure either Andrew. I'm just taking an educated guess.
The stock market is so unpredictable all you can do is just follow your gut. I do have limits on my account though. Certain stocks are to be sold at certain price points offering some degree of protection.
Picked up some more Monday. It was like the clearance rack at Target.
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I was totally against it because the CEOs make more money than I can ever imagine and they have to be held liable for his or her mistakes. The tax payers should not have to bail them out.
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20 years in the market. has taught me that stocks that are sinking
usually go much lower than you ever imagined they would go.
.........but
Yeah I am buying too.
They Led me to the Traw
Last week I bought a few stocks
I guess I am about 10 or 15% invested the rest on the side
A lot of valuations look good here
but I doubt we will have good rebounds any time soon.
In 2001, 1 year after the Tech bubble burst,
I made the mistake of jumping back in too soon
it took 3 and a half years for those stocks to start going up again.
I am really not sure how long this will take to wash out
So I am cautiously buying.