Sly Bald Guys Forum
Confidence and Success => Fitness/Diet => Topic started by: X The Hierophant on January 29, 2008, 09:22:04 AM
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For all you who are interested in vegetarianism/veganism (or enjoy documentaries) here is an excellent film exploring the moral issues surrounding eating meat. I am currently attempting to go vegetarian (and plan to transition that into veganism over then next month or two). I found this video quite motivational.
Also - if you recognize the voice of the narrator it is Joaquin Phoenix (from the film Gladiator, Signs, etc).
Link to full length film:
http://veg-tv.info/Earthlings
Also - as a side health benfit I have lost 6 pounds in my first three weeks of simpy eliminating meat from my diet.
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Thanks for the link X, great to see you back up....gotta go now to the store and warn all of the veggies that you are coming. ;D
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I could definately handle going full vegetarian...almost there ...rarely eat much meat and can do the faux-meat just fine...
but I could never do vegan...very tough, would restrict too much (because dairy is in EVERYTHING!) and you have to be careful about the health issue...ie. yogurt is HUGELY good for your health with all the active cultures and organisms in it...proteins from just nuts and veggies...you need a lot
my wife has us eating very healthy by making pretty much everything from scratch when she can (most of what we eat now-a-days)..you know wheat and barley and raw grains in everything..
THAT alone takes getting used to, but I really dig it...
Good luck X, I'm sure you'll do great with it!
P.S.And if you go vegan avoid eating chips or pretzels to fill the hunger...especially when you're on the go...I've known some vegan friends that got "beer-bellies' because they lost muscle and gained some weight in the midsection!
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Thanks for the link X, great to see you back up....gotta go now to the store and warn all of the veggies that you are coming. ;D
Thanks man. Good to be back! O0
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I could definately handle going full vegetarian...almost there ...rarely eat much meat and can do the faux-meat just fine...
but I could never do vegan...very tough, would restrict too much (because dairy is in EVERYTHING!) and you have to be careful about the health issue...ie. yogurt is HUGELY good for your health with all the active cultures and organisms in it...proteins from just nuts and veggies...you need a lot
my wife has us eating very healthy by making pretty much everything from scratch when she can (most of what we eat now-a-days)..you know wheat and barley and raw grains in everything..
THAT alone takes getting used to, but I really dig it...
Good luck X, I'm sure you'll do great with it!
P.S.And if you go vegan avoid eating chips or pretzels to fill the hunger...especially when you're on the go...I've known some vegan friends that got "beer-bellies' because they lost muscle and gained some weight in the midsection!
I totally agree with you, being vegan doesn't eliminate poor food choices. You still need to eat a well-balanced meal and not live off sweets and chips and such. I have tried to be mindful of that.
Keeping that in mind you don't "need" dairy products to survive (get enough protien, etc). There are several good books out there that delve deeply into this:
To name one: Becoming Vegan http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Vegan-Complete-Adopting-Plant-Based/dp/1570671036/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201644954&sr=8-1
I've enjoyed the challenge of changing my diet so far, and have upped my excercise as well. So far, so good!
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Keeping that in mind you don't "need" dairy products to survive (get enough protien, etc).
Yea, I agree...totally...
but in a daily routine without dairy (which includes baked things, right?) ..eating and enjoying what you eat on a daily-weekly basis MIGHT get tough...
I love the soy milk and non dairy creamers and have tried and liked soy cream cheese..but all the added high fructose sugars...argggg!....
No negative vibes here....just looking out for your back bro ;)!
So if you can swing it, MORE POWER to ya!
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Yes! Do it! My wife and I have been vegetarians for 3 years now. It's the best.
I don't see the reasons for being a vegetarian as supporting veganism... i.e. if you're concerned with animal rights, find a dairy farm that treats their cows like pets. But thats a whole different topic.
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I really believe in eating unprocessed foods. Still enjoy some meat but nowhere near the amount I grew up eating. Eat a lot of fresh fruit and raw vegetables
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I was a vegetarian for a number of years due to moral objections that I had about eating meat. I kept getting sick however and didnt properly plan out the necessary supplements needed to make up for the lack of nutrients that your body does not get by not eating meat.
I now eat small amounts of beef and chicken and bacon on occassion. I will not eat Veal or any innards of an animal.
I fully support someones decision to become Vegan or anything they wish to do in life. My main reason for eating meat again was the hypocricy and idiocy of the Straight Edge Vegan movement of the 90's. They functioned as a gang of bullys who would terrorize local nightspots and even vandalize restaraunts even going so far as to jump a 16 year old girl who was working as a server for some extra money at a local restaraunt that served meat.
These idiots can go F**k themselves O0
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I really believe in eating unprocessed foods. Still enjoy some meat but nowhere near the amount I grew up eating. Eat a lot of fresh fruit and raw vegetables
Right on bro!
That's what my wife is getting us into...and I'm diggin' it! O0
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I'll check that out first chance I get. Thanks for sharing.
I will say, before even watching it that Joaquin will have to be EXTREMELY convincing on the morality or lack-thereof of eating meat.
I'm all for veganism for health reasons and all that. But MORALITY? PUHHHLEEEEEEZ.
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I'm all for veganism for health reasons and all that. But MORALITY? PUHHHLEEEEEEZ.
Veganism is a personal decision that to me does have ethical/moral implications (though I must admit the health benefits are a bonus).
I wasn't trying to convince anyone or change anyone's mind.
I just thought Earthlings was a well done documentary and was surprised to find a link where one could view it for free instead of renting it from the video store or purchasing it from Best Buy/Amazon/Etc.
My apologies if I offended.
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Keeping that in mind you don't "need" dairy products to survive (get enough protien, etc).
Yea, I agree...totally...
but in a daily routine without dairy (which includes baked things, right?) ..eating and enjoying what you eat on a daily-weekly basis MIGHT get tough...
I love the soy milk and non dairy creamers and have tried and liked soy cream cheese..but all the added high fructose sugars...argggg!....
No negative vibes here....just looking out for your back bro ;)!
So if you can swing it, MORE POWER to ya!
I hear ya bro O0
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My apologies if I offended.
NAHHHH, brutha.....no offense whatsoever. It's just that my knee-jerk reaction to "morality" being connected to eating meat struck me as rather absurd, that's all.
I immediately envisioned the morally-challenged, crotch-flashin', marriage-busting, Tommy Lee-sucking, coke-sniffin', fetus-aborting Hollywood crowd touting "morality" as to why they don't eat meat.
But I shouldn't prejudge without watching and listening.
Personal convictions is probably what we're talking about here. Lemme give'r a looksy.
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Most Vegans I have met are not the healthiest... most are emaciated, pale, skinny (not in a good way) and are sick about once a month. If you ever try to do anything with a vegan, forget about eating... We have walked the streets of some of the greatest cities on the west coast looking for suitable food for a vegan diet... and well it only exists in the supermarket and even then it is looked upon with a skeptical eye. Watching someone that is obviously starving deny themselves nutrition and watching you eat is ridiculous. Many I have met are borderline militant as well. All in all it seems that their lifestyle controls them and not the other way around. Maybe that is just the type of Vegan I have met...
I do know some very healthy / happy Vegetarians and the healthiest are those that eat fish. One friend has been Vegetarian for over 20 years and you would never know, he has just recently had fish a couple of times. I also know a guy that has never had meat EVER... he is about 35 years old and his mother raised him vegetarian, he is quite happy with it and once again, you would never know. He is also a great cook and has never had to approve a menu before going to a restaurant.
I just don't understand why everything has to be so black and white (other than folks wanting to label themselves) with things that in no way need to be. Everything in moderation, don't eat what you don't like, but to starve yourself because you have labeled yourself a Vegetarian or Vegan is just plain ridiculous.
Just remember you cant help a damn thing as an emaciated twig with no drive or energy... and if cows were carnivores... they would have you for lunch in a second and not feel the slightest guilt about it.
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I fully support someones decision to become Vegan or anything they wish to do in life.
Yeah....no biggie
....the hypocricy and idiocy of the Straight Edge Vegan movement of the 90's.
These idiots can go F**k themselves O0
Similar to my "hollywood" scenario....HYPOCRACY.
Definitely a powerful flick there X.....a lot some of what they say is right on.....cruelty to animals....man's inhumanity to man...racism...sexism...AMEN ! But specieism? As far as cruelty or the cruel exploitation of animals.....yeah...AMEN! But to stretch that over to whether or not to eat meat?
Brilliantly assembled horrific images, I must say. And some of those idiots on there that joked around and got morbid pleasure out of the processes is pretty sick.
However, I noticed that conspicuously absent were any scenes and images of torn-apart body parts of defenseless, innocent little babies being tossed into a bloody bucket like garbage after feeling the excrutiating agony of being torn apart and then sucked out of a girl's uterus by a razor-sharp vacuum cleaner because of a twisted view of "woman's choice." Seems like that would fall inline with the premise of this film.
The powerful music and dramatic movie-star narration notwithstanding, this just showed me how selective and hypocritical (and ignorant) hollywood can be.
Eat meat....don't eat meat....fine.
Personal conviction to immediately cease eating meat after viewing something like this?...fine.
But then--by golly--it follows quite logically and consistantly that one needs to start re-thinking their views on suede shoes, leather jackets, leather work boots, cowboy boots, leather upholstery, footballs, baseballs, razor strops, etc....
I don't for one second buy that--as the film at least attempts to insinuate--I am an immoral, dimwitted, purveyor of specieist evils because I eat meat.
Besides, it's WAY less complicated because I like leather shoes, boots, jackets, upholstery, and all that. :)
Just my 2 cents :-X
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I fully support someones decision to become Vegan or anything they wish to do in life.
Yeah....no biggie
....the hypocricy and idiocy of the Straight Edge Vegan movement of the 90's.
These idiots can go F**k themselves O0
Similar to my "hollywood" scenario....HYPOCRACY.
Definitely a powerful flick there X.....a lot some of what they say is right on.....cruelty to animals....man's inhumanity to man...racism...sexism...AMEN ! But specieism? As far as cruelty or the cruel exploitation of animals.....yeah...AMEN! But to stretch that over to whether or not to eat meat?
Brilliantly assembled horrific images, I must say. And some of those idiots on there that joked around and got morbid pleasure out of the processes is pretty sick.
However, I noticed that conspicuously absent were any scenes and images of torn-apart body parts of defenseless, innocent little babies being tossed into a bloody bucket like garbage after feeling the excrutiating agony of being torn apart and then sucked out of a girl's uterus by a razor-sharp vacuum cleaner because of a twisted view of "woman's choice." Seems like that would fall inline with the premise of this film.
The powerful music and dramatic movie-star narration notwithstanding, this just showed me how selective and hypocritical (and ignorant) hollywood can be.
Eat meat....don't eat meat....fine.
Personal conviction to immediately cease eating meat after viewing something like this?...fine.
But then--by golly--it follows quite logically and consistantly that one needs to start re-thinking their views on suede shoes, leather jackets, leather work boots, cowboy boots, leather upholstery, footballs, baseballs, razor strops, etc....
I don't for one second buy that--as the film at least attempts to insinuate--I am an immoral, dimwitted, purveyor of specieist evils because I eat meat.
Besides, it's WAY less complicated because I like leather shoes, boots, jackets, upholstery, and all that. :)
Just my 2 cents :-X
Ok, by the tone of this post it is appearent to me that this is appearently a very sore topic for you.
Instead of perpetuating a debate, I would just like to re-state the intent of my initial post. I recently decided to go vegan, and in researching this topic I found a link to a free documentary that I thought was extremely well done. I assumed that there may be some readers here that would appreciate a link to a free documentary. That is all I was attempting. I was not trying to start a debate on animal rights.
A documentary is by its very nature a film giving a viewpoint on a topic. Some documentaries I agree with, and others I do not; but I always enjoy a good documentary regardless of my agreement, as they spark new ideas and let you see things from another person's/group's perspective. I thought some readers here would enjoy this one. I did not anticipate such a visceral reaction.
Again, apologies if I offended. I simply thought a few people would enjoy a free film.
Replies to some of your comments:
Veganism does include attempting to eliminate animal products such as suede shoes, leather jackets, leather work boots, cowboy boots, leather upholstery, footballs, baseballs, razor strops, etc. - I don't really see how this bothers you however as I have made no posts attempting to convince people to adopt a vegan lifestlyle - I only posted a thread sharing a documentary.
As for your comments on abortion, I do not think that topic falls within the scope of this documentary, but I would be open to watching one that covers this topic. I do not see how this relates, but do agree with you that this is a prominent moral issue of our age (along with cloning, global warming, genocide, and a host of other things).
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No need to apologize X. I think some people that aren't to exposed to a wide range of people that are vegetarians or vegans tend to associate them with the extremists that we often see on TV and who also associate themselves with other causes.
Thanks for posting up the film, I'm sure it will help those that are considering their freedom to choose to be a vegetarian or vegan.
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].....this is appearently a very sore topic for you. [/i]
Nahhh....not a "very sore" subject....certain things just bug me and I can be a verbose idiot when it comes to speaking my mind about it. That's all.
You don't bother me, X...nor the fact that you shared that film. Have at it! I just got on my high horse, critical about nuances of the film. And it probably won't be the last time I offer a java-fueled diarreah of the mouth soap box.
If I were REALLY and SERIOUSLY offended, I would PM you and flame ya.
No doubt that is a POWERFUL film and very well done.
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X, I watched the film in its entirety last night , Very well done. There were some things that the film tried to say that I didnt agree with but overrall I found it a very insightful and powerful documentary.
I think strong debate on issues is good for this forum. If everyone agreed with each other about every single issue it would be quite a boring place.
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I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian [I eat eggs and drink milk] have been since I was 10 years old and I don't regret anything, in the beginning I took cooking classes and talked to a dietitian and every time they see me they're amazed at how healthy I am.
My reason for turning? The environment.
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As for your comments on abortion, I do not think that topic falls within the scope of this documentary,
You are correct...it doesn't fall within the scope of this documentary....but because of selective portrayal of so-called morality.
Yeah, if a documentary strictly about cruelty to animals is on Animal Planet.....sure, that would not be the place to discuss human abortion.
But if a film is decrying man's inhumanity to man, sexism, racism, specieism, etc...and drawing MORAL conclusions it should be in there. What's the difference between the images of slavery and Hitler prominently portrayed in this film....murdering millions of Jews because of a twisted mindset......and murdering millions of babies because of a twisted mindset? Why would one be portrayed and decried, while the other is ignored? It's ALL FRIGGEN HEINOUS and should rightly ALL be included.
For a person or organization--with a passion and moral conviction for the environment, specieism, or whatever--to chain themselves to a tree in an attempt to save it from being cut down....for someone to spend their life to SAVE THE WHALES or save the dolphins from the tuna nets....puppies from puppy farms....exploitation and cruelty to animals....Decrying Michael Vick and all that (ALL worthy and passionate causes, I might add).... and at the SAME TIME (same documentary or whatever) ignore or be less concerned about the murderous millions of babies being slaughtered....is ridiculous.
See, there I go again.
I think strong debate on issues is good for this forum. If everyone agreed with each other about every single issue it would be quite a boring place.
YEP !!
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This film, as poigant and eye opening as it is, chooses to leave out the issue of Abortion and focus solely on Mankinds exploitation of animals. Therein lies the problem. Robmeister said it well
"Selective Portrayal".
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You will rarely if at all find an Animals Rights activist who is is also Pro-Life. Work that logic out
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But if a film is decrying man's inhumanity to man, sexism, racism, specieism, etc...and drawing MORAL conclusions it should be in there. What's the difference between the images of slavery and Hitler prominently portrayed in this film....murdering millions of Jews because of a twisted mindset......and murdering millions of babies because of a twisted mindset? Why would one be portrayed and decried, while the other is ignored? It's ALL FRIGGEN HEINOUS and should rightly ALL be included.
For a person or organization--with a passion and moral conviction for the environment, specieism, or whatever--to chain themselves to a tree in an attempt to save it from being cut down....for someone to spend their life to SAVE THE WHALES or save the dolphins from the tuna nets....puppies from puppy farms....exploitation and cruelty to animals....Decrying Michael Vick and all that (ALL worthy and passionate causes, I might add).... and at the SAME TIME (same documentary or whatever) ignore or be less concerned about the murderous millions of babies being slaughtered....is ridiculous.
I agree with Rob, to an extent.
IMO, animal rights are a reasonably strong argument against most abortions even if one does not believe that fetuses are children. Even if a fetus isn't a child, certainly its worth or value is greater than a chicken. In other words, those of us against killing animals for food might be similarly against killing fetuses, because at the most basic level, fetuses are animals, too.
I'm not sure whether I'm pro-life or not, but at this analogy seems pretty persuasive.
(not to get too political or anything :) )
Perhaps this demonstrates an inconsistency in animal rights proponents who are also pro-choice. But even if that inconsistency exists, I don't know that we can expect them to portray it in a persuasive piece like this...
With all respect to X (this was a great thing to post), but more generally, I wonder sometimes whether these sorts of "documentaries" are worthwhile. After all, hollywood can make me (at least for a moment) want to leave my life and go be Rambo, against all rational arguments. Couldn't they have at least as powerful of an effect on our politics?
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As for your comments on abortion, I do not think that topic falls within the scope of this documentary,
You are correct...it doesn't fall within the scope of this documentary....but because of selective portrayal of so-called morality.
This film, as poigant and eye opening as it is, chooses to leave out the issue of Abortion and focus solely on Mankinds exploitation of animals. Therein lies the problem. Robmeister said it well
You will rarely if at all find an Animals Rights activist who is is also Pro-Life. Work that logic out
Ok, so we are upset that abortion was not covered along with animal rights, and that many animal right activists (supposedly are pro-life).
I am a big fan of documentaries, and one trend I do see is that they usually only cover one major topic at a time. Is abortion an important issue? - absolutely. Should they have covered that in this documentary? - Of course not. I think that if this documentary tried to tackle the issue of abortion (which is an equally complex issue) you would have a 4 hour documentary instead of an 2 hour one. And why stop there? I mean if you cover animal rights and abortion what about the death penalty? So should the documentary be 6 hours to cover all three of these important issues? Genocide? Should we add that too? See the trend here. To make everyone happy should we have a documentary that lasts several days and attempts to tackle every issue concievable? This is a bit silly.
And if animal right's activists are supposedly pro-life, should we criticize pro-life activists because they are not typically (supposedly) against the death penalty? Instead of side-stepping issues, why not just take each issue individually and judge them on thier own merit. If you don't agree with a documentary, there is nothing wrong with that. But bringing in a totally unrelated topic to mask your disagreement with the issue presented is illogical.
Again, I would like to add that I never intended to participate in a debate here, but some of these comments are such that I am compelled to respond.
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No need to apologize X. I think some people that aren't to exposed to a wide range of people that are vegetarians or vegans tend to associate them with the extremists that we often see on TV and who also associate themselves with other causes.
Thanks for posting up the film, I'm sure it will help those that are considering their freedom to choose to be a vegetarian or vegan.
Thanks man. I also thought it was a good film and that a free link may be appreciated. 8)
With all respect to X (this was a great thing to post), but more generally, I wonder sometimes whether these sorts of "documentaries" are worthwhile. After all, hollywood can make me (at least for a moment) want to leave my life and go be Rambo, against all rational arguments. Couldn't they have at least as powerful of an effect on our politics?
Point well taken. There is no doubt that any documentary attempts to sway it's viewers to adopt the viewpoint presented. One should always keep this in mind. Excellent point!
On a side-note I need to go check the new Rambo flick this weekend... I know it will be cheesy and predictable, but I have always been a sucker for the Rambo/Rocky films.
I think strong debate on issues is good for this forum. If everyone agreed with each other about every single issue it would be quite a boring place.
Agreed! O0
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Interestingly relevent article on CNN this morning:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/30/undercover.slaughter.video/index.html
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Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I would like to remind all involved in this discussion to review the Posting Guidelines topic, specifically item 14:
http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0 (http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0)
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Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I would like to remind all involved in this discussion to review the Posting Guidelines topic, specifically item 14:
http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0 (http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0)
Thanks for the reminder. I apologize for my part in the breach :)
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Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I would like to remind all involved in this discussion to review the Posting Guidelines topic, specifically item 14:
http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0 (http://www.slybaldguys.com/smf/index.php?topic=723.0)
Thanks for the reminder. I apologize for my part in the breach :)
Rob's right. I dropped the ball and set a bad example as a moderator :-[
No real problem with X's original post.
I was the one who brought in "the breach" by hammering the abortion thang. :-[
Sorry gang.....MY BAD !
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BaldRob, While I respect Tyler and this site to honor the rules of posting in this forum I believe this debate was reasonable and controlled and all involved were respectful and posted valid points.