Sly Bald Guys Forum
Discussions About Being Bald => Reactions to being Bald => Topic started by: baldtribesman on April 24, 2010, 02:09:11 PM
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Hi I can almost imagine being as supportive as you guys are you will tell me that personal style should come first, but the problem I have is that in my religion guys are supposed to have sideburns and not shave them off. If I go to certain places where there is religious people of my faith my parents are embarassed and I do stick out like a sore thumb. Having a shaved head while growing and keeping a beard is not a good option for me because I feel I look very menacing with my dark thick beard growth. What do you guys think about my religion which states that I should have sideburns versus being slick and hairless from head to face. Thanks for your input.
Fred Man
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Hi Fred-
This is such a personal decision. You have to be the one that feels comfortable with your Faith. If you are comfortable being shaved and still being a part of your religion then all should be well. If not.... then YOU have to Pray on the situation and come to terms thru that Prayer and your committment to your Faith.
Peace.........
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Not a question I can help with....I have no use for religion at all...but it's all personal.
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Might I suggest you reconsider the beard option, a well trimmed beard, particularly if you're graced with a dense growth could look rather sharp and not threatening at all--imo. Certainly when the Creator dealt out the genes for slyness, he was most generous, and there are few ethnic/racial/religious groups that don't have at least some of the slyness that was part of the process--so when the rules were written they had to be broad enough to fit all that was created. So probably there are other men in the group that are also graced w/ very bald heads, naturally. Their sideburns, probably aren't so neatly and sharply trimmed, but from the seat as far away as the Creator seems to be some times, who's to notice? Once your beard is grown & nicely trimmed--this could be as little as three weeks if you do have such a nice dense growth, I would approach the local head of your religious group, one on one, w/o your parents. Ask him if tradition mandates any particular length of sideburns in terms of hair length, my feeling is that if he/she knows the rules--somehow your beard, neatly trimmed will get the blessing. And, your parents, who learn of the blessing after its given, can't complain--or they offend, not your nice looking noggin. It may be worth a try.
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Thanks SaintC and others that gave input or read my post thus far. As of now I have my head hair back for the last three weeks, I have caved to pressure from my parents as well as suffering from depression has led me to lose confidence in having a shaved head, also its a lot of work to both shave my face and head. But the main reason I grew my hair out is so I am not seen as rebelious and an outcast in my religious community that requires that men have side burns.
I am going to throw some options out for myself, guys sounds off what you think and then I will put up photos documenting my transformation.
1. As in my current photo shaved head and shaved face.
2. Just shaved face and a 2 or 3 for my head
3. beard and 2 or 3 for my head
4. Goatee and 2 or 3 for my head.
5. Shaved head and beard
6. shaved head and goatee
7. shaved head and side burns - meaning that the only hair I do not shave is the sideburn area.
SOUND OFF GUYS I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU, I WANT TO COME BACK TO SLYDOM HELP ME!
Fred Man
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Fred Man:
Perhaps you need your parents & religious community support more than anything else--and if you didn't that would be a really bad thing. H/o, religious requirements are imposed by tradition, history and scholarship--also a little plain bigotry and self-identification issues, but put those aside for now.
The Creator gave you brains to find a way to comply with the society and religious requirements w/o compromising the necessity to be you--bc he/she created you in his/her own image, yada, yada etc.
This is really a problem we can't handle as a vote, because among the Creator's "elect" our ideas don't count, only the Creator's, we don't have ballots--and to presume to know those ideas in their entirety is just not possible--you just need to understand them well enough to present yourself as you really want to be & yet be within the legitimate community of believers in your tradition, not just thoughtless mouths, expressing the limits and not the possibilities. Those who do limit their thoughts, they're not true followers either--and you know that.
You need to find a way, I have suggested only one, to get within your community, and still be you.
The Chosen, clearly comes to mind--read, mark and learn how that worked. If you haven't read the works of Chaim Potok--but I think you might have, you really need to now, and also his life--a guy who dealt with really serious issues like this and came out okay. And I believe that there are some who consider his work, thoughts and life to be "forbidden." That is a choice you need to make now. We can't do this for you. It's work, get to it.
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Yep ; The deck is stacked against ya...
grew your hair back - - caused depression - - its too much work
caved in too the wishes of your parents and religious community
" its almost time too pack it in " - - or
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What do you guys think about my religion which states that I should have sideburns versus being slick and hairless from head to face?
Well mate .... since you did ask ... I'd say there were WAY more important things "Religion" should concern itself with.
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In my opinion, if you feel strong in your faith, you should be allowed to have your appearance as you wish :).
Although you may consider talking to some people from your community about how you feel, as im sure there are others that do not have sideburns or maybe not be able to grow them due to medical conditions/genetics.
Hope all goes well :)
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If you are worried about looking menacing while having a beard and a shaved head, you might want to try smiling a little more to make people feel at ease. Also I would encourage you to take a look at several of us full bearded sly guys and see how we look! As long as your religion doesn't have a prohibition against a shaved head, I would do the full beard! It can be a look that would work for you! That way you can still keep the head totally bald!
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Guys I wanted to shed some more light about my predicament I am pasting below the common question about why as a jewish man I am supposed to have side burns:
Question: Why do male Jews have to have sideburns?
Answer: The Torah says, "You shall not round off the peyos of your head" (Leviticus 19:27). The word peyos refers to sideburns -- i.e. the hair in front of the ears that extends to underneath the cheekbone which is level with the nose (Talmud - Makkot 20a). The Talmud explains that this law only applies to men, not to women.
Maimonides explains that the prohibition of “rounding” prohibits the removal of sideburns, by razor, tweezers or any other means. Though it is permitted to trim the sideburns, even very close to the skin, using scissors.
From a mystical perspective, peyos otherwise known as sideburns separate between the front part of the brain which is used for abstract thought that can be used for holiness, and the back part of the brain that governs the body.
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Answer: The Torah says, "You shall not round off the peyos of your head" (Leviticus 19:27). The word peyos refers to sideburns -- i.e. the hair in front of the ears that extends to underneath the cheekbone which is level with the nose (Talmud - Makkot 20a). The Talmud explains that this law only applies to men, not to women.
Maimonides explains that the prohibition of “rounding” prohibits the removal of sideburns, by razor, tweezers or any other means. Though it is permitted to trim the sideburns, even very close to the skin, using scissors.
Thank the Creator that it doesn't apply to women, but, then again, why should that surprise us--the Jewish people, Greeks, Italians, etc.--who wants to look at their women with their natural growth--He is merciful!
Now, back to your problem, if the Second Moses doesn't have a problem w/ trimming w/ sissors, a nice tight and sharp trim on a nice beard--presuming a dense growth why should you be more "royal than the prince?"--it would look good. If Maimonides is satisfied, your Mother & Father, let alone your community should be presumptuous and see themselves as wiser than him? Live a little, grow a nice beard and be glad you can, satisfy the Law, befuddle your parents & community, and enjoy life. Come on--you can do this.
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Well... since you ask my opinion. I will have to side with Jesus. Luke 10:26-28
25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"
28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
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I am a Christian and know very little about the jewish faith (which is pittiful, I know), but I seem to recall there are some laws to govern the shaving of the head for the purpose of an oath. Not sure on the details or implications of that.
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Thank you guys I have made up my mind I am now at this moment going to the bathroom and will one again shave my head and will grow a beard I will post my pics tommorow and will post more pics as my beard grows in. Problem solved.
Btw I am looking forward to meeting up at convention the summer is coming!!
thanks guys grabbing my clippers and then my razor.
Fred Man
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Hi Fred,
Your posts sent me on an investigative trail. A very interesting topic albeit highly confusing. I found one reference where the common people shaved their heads with the exception of their sideburns, in order to distinguish themselves from royalty. Personally I would follow the direction of what your Rabbi says. Go to the expert. I found so many interpretations of the verses that it was confusing. Another option is to pray about it and follow your heart.
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Straight from Wikipedia: Beard (I don't consider it a very credible source, but it's a start...)
Because scissors have two blades, some opinions in halakha (Jewish law) permit their use to trim the beard, as the cutting action comes from contact of the two blades and not the blade against the skin. For this reason, most poskim (Jewish legal deciders) rule that Orthodox Jews may use electric razors to remain cleanshaven, as such shavers cut by trapping the hair between the blades and the metal grating, halakhically a scissor-like action. Some prominent contemporary poskim[who?] maintain that electric shavers constitute a razor-like action and consequently prohibit their use.
Here we have a classic, legalistic debate about the interpretation of religious text. Some say yay, others say nay. Apparently it is not a cut-and-dry issue. If no one has approached you from a legalistic standpoint, then all negative reactions are probably rooted in the aesthetic appeal of your new look. It's simply not what they are accustomed to.
I would encourage you to do what will make you feel the best about yourself. A person who is confident in their appearance generally exudes that confidence in every other aspect of their lives. I think it will make you happier. If no one has approached you and offered criticism (other than family) or discouraged you from attending services or functions within your religious community, I'd say you're never gonna have any problems other than those you create in your head.
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It's a shame that your religion, which is supposed to give you peace of mind and a calmness of spirit is instead causing you so much mental anguish and depression. As long as you are at peace with yourself and God than so be it and no man made rules and regulations (and all the religions have them) have the right to interfere with that. IMO.
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It's a shame that your religion, which is supposed to give you peace of mind and a calmness of spirit is instead causing you so much mental anguish and depression. As long as you are at peace with yourself and God than so be it and no man made rules and regulations (and all the religions have them) have the right to interfere with that. IMO.
I'm with you on that Tom. O0
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personally for me dude. I wish I had a thick beard. So I vote beard, all they way
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I have made up my mind I am now at this moment going to the bathroom and will one again shave my head and will grow a beard I will post my pics tommorow and will post more pics as my beard grows in. Problem solved.
I think that this will work out very well indeed, comply with the Law, live with yourself--this is a plan.
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And go through life projecting how "stunning" you look like another fellow member does..
( whos name escapes me at the moment ) ::)
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My understanding is that unless you are Hasidic sideburns are entirely optional. Even Orthodox Jews do not adhere strictly to this rule across the board. In my travels I have been privileged to meet a number of Rabbis, none of which I recall having noticeable peyos.
Someone mentioned earlier speaking to your Rabbi. I think this is wise counsel. What the Rabbi tells you will be in accordance with law. What everyone else tells you is mere opinion.
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Im had to chime in and dont mean to sound harsh BUT most of the non-sense in Leviticus is why a nice Jewish boy like Jesus came to present a different, more evolved and benevolent point of view... Leviticus is full of crazy ideas that make no sense in a world where most are educated and few are illiterate...think it about 2000 or 3000 thousand years ago few were educated and most were illiterate. Dont let any religious people control and threaten you in this day and age with a version of a bitchy, moody, petty God that turns people into pillars of salt...come on Dude !
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Interesting thread...
I am Jewish too but not quite as "orthodox" a follower so I never even thought of this issue...it's funny how everyone personalizes religion--I would never get a tattoo even if I wanted one due to religious regions, but shaving my head was never even a thought....
Anyway Fred I hope whatever you decide leaves you happy both spiritually and otherwise...
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I think Fred will find that since it looks like he would have a thick beard, that it will go well with his sly noggin. Also, while I can't find the pictures, I know that there is a conservative talk show host that has been on the air in Seattle named, Rabbi Daniel Lapin. In the past when I have seen pics of him, it looked like he had a full beard and shaved head. But I have never seen a pic of him with out some kind of head covering. But he is a possible sly Rabbi.
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Good find Marsh -- http://www.rabbidaniellapin.com/
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It's a shame that you've run into this problem because you look like you were created at the genetic level to have a shaved head. That's how well it suits you. And that goatee you've started in your avatar gives me serious beard envy. You ought to at least give the full beard look a try, and from what I read here it sounds like you're at least free to keep those hairs short.
The following might sound like a rant against religion, but I find faith a very admirable and I am certainly not one of those who claim that traditional organized religions (Judism, Christianity, Islam, etc) are wrong because *I* have personally discovered a truth billions of others never discovered but...
This kind of stuff about organized religions bugs the hell out of me.
First off, a lot of comments here (like mine) are based on how to skirt around the problem. Anyone else notice how funny it is that we're suggesting ways to find a loophole around a rule imposed by the Almighty, because He can create the universe but won't notice the insincerity in skirting some arbitrary rule?
Second, most of these kinds of strange rules seem more symbolic and/or cultural in nature than godly in nature. They look like a joke, and do little more than make issues of eternal importance (the existance a God, the religion or religions that are actually true, the purpose of man, etc...) into a joke too. Telling people they must keep a beard in a certain style, wear a specific piece of clothing, or follow some other completely superficial custom completely dissuades millions from the substance of the religion. Like someone else said, don't religion and God have more important things to worry about? Seriously, when the trimming of a person's sideburns is considered as important as a person's treatment of another then that religion has a serious problem if you ask me.
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"...For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." (1 Samuel 16:7b)
There were a few bald prophets in ancient times and the Lord say's nothing against this, so what's the issue, bro?
God made you to be who you are & not as others "expect" you to be.
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God clearly supports bald -- check out 2 Kings 2:23-24 Never cross a bald guy!
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Yeah, he might gore you with those horns! :o
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O0 Dear Tribesman: I think you have made the right decision for two reasons: 1) it's time to 'do your own thing' despite parental/community disapprobation; and 2) most of the 613 laws in the OT do not--or should not--apply in this modern pluralistic culture. Love of one's neighbor and justice tromp all. You might want to read St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians on this point. Stay strong in your decision. Professor Melon
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Guys I wanted to shed some more light about my predicament I am pasting below the common question about why as a jewish man I am supposed to have side burns:
Question: Why do male Jews have to have sideburns?
Answer: The Torah says, "You shall not round off the peyos of your head" (Leviticus 19:27). The word peyos refers to sideburns -- i.e. the hair in front of the ears that extends to underneath the cheekbone which is level with the nose (Talmud - Makkot 20a). The Talmud explains that this law only applies to men, not to women.
Maimonides explains that the prohibition of “rounding” prohibits the removal of sideburns, by razor, tweezers or any other means. Though it is permitted to trim the sideburns, even very close to the skin, using scissors.
From a mystical perspective, peyos otherwise known as sideburns separate between the front part of the brain which is used for abstract thought that can be used for holiness, and the back part of the brain that governs the body.
Yeah, that's totally scientific and reasonable. The magic power of hair! :XX
I got no use for religion, myself. I refuse to be bullied by thousands year old edicts that are irrelvent today.
Spirituality is one thing, but organized religion.. well.. I'll stop here before I offend someone.
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I agree with the professor....... great wisdom !!