Author Topic: mark mcguire on steroids?  (Read 4093 times)

Offline Razor X

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Re: mark mcguire on steroids?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 07:31:09 PM »

So some poor guy who only makes a half a million a year sitting on the bench for some NFL team thinks that he might move up to second string if he juices a little bit has made a choice in spite of the fact that he knows the risks. And I don't think he's evil for doing this, and I feel bad for his family when he dies or grows an eye in the middle of his forehead but I think it's important to remember that he made the choice.


You've really lost me.  I'm totally confused.    ??? ???  Nobody said that people who use anabolic steroids are evil, and yes, it is a choice -- an incredibly poor choice, but a choice nonetheless.


And even if it's a false choice he made it, no one held a gun to his head and no one threatened to stop paying him for playing sports for a living.

Well, you did, or at least you appeared to when you said:


These guys are always whining about how short their $10 mil a year careers are so here's the choice.....shoot the 'roids or quit the game and get a regular job like the rest of us.

Perhaps I misunderstood you; if so, I apologize.

(|8-)

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Re: mark mcguire on steroids?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2010, 01:00:45 AM »
And for myself it is less than a concern because everybody makes choices every minute of every day. So some poor guy who only makes a half a million a year sitting on the bench for some NFL team thinks that he might move up to second string if he juices a little bit has made a choice in spite of the fact that he knows the risks. And I don't think he's evil for doing this, and I feel bad for his family when he dies or grows an eye in the middle of his forehead but I think it's important to remember that he made the choice. And even if it's a false choice he made it, no one held a gun to his head and no one threatened to stop paying him for playing sports for a living.

The problem is if you have to juice to be a pro, then you have to juice in college.  And if you have to juice in college, then you have to juice in high school to get onto a college team.  And I think everybody agrees that teenagers are not equipped to make these decisions.  Most of them are probably deluded about their chances to make a career out of it besides. 

Cycling is a bit ahead of other sports in this, which is why cycling is so strict (absurdly so, even).  It wasn't that long ago that everything was allowed, and guys took amphetamines, strychnine, and all kinds of stuff to compete in the Tour de France.  This was all allowed, done openly in front of fans.  The sport of cycling discovered that you can't trust either the promoters or the athletes to set reasonable rules.  The promoters always want the most grueling event and record-breaking performances.  The athletes will do whatever it takes to get ahead.  Unless someone else steps in (like laws outside the sport or a strict governing body), it ends up being a competition about who can be the most reckless with their health.  Ultimately, that's self-defeating--it hurts the integrity of the game, and nobody wants to see their heroes sprouting extra eyes or tumors or losing brain function (the recent studies about concussions in football are scary).

I don't think the athletes are evil, either.  They're doing what makes sense, but it's not good for them or for the sport in the long term.  Its the sports bodies who have an obligation to enforce the rules against doping and to look out for the safety of the athletes, even if it means protecting them from themselves sometimes.  You go out and recruit a bunch of guys who will do whatever it takes to win, so you shouldn't be surprised if some of them try to push the limits and if you have to put a lot of effort into enforcing the rules.

Offline tomgallagher

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Re: mark mcguire on steroids?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 06:21:26 AM »
And for myself it is less than a concern because everybody makes choices every minute of every day. So some poor guy who only makes a half a million a year sitting on the bench for some NFL team thinks that he might move up to second string if he juices a little bit has made a choice in spite of the fact that he knows the risks. And I don't think he's evil for doing this, and I feel bad for his family when he dies or grows an eye in the middle of his forehead but I think it's important to remember that he made the choice. And even if it's a false choice he made it, no one held a gun to his head and no one threatened to stop paying him for playing sports for a living.

The problem is if you have to juice to be a pro, then you have to juice in college.  And if you have to juice in college, then you have to juice in high school to get onto a college team.  And I think everybody agrees that teenagers are not equipped to make these decisions.  Most of them are probably deluded about their chances to make a career out of it besides. 

Cycling is a bit ahead of other sports in this, which is why cycling is so strict (absurdly so, even).  It wasn't that long ago that everything was allowed, and guys took amphetamines, strychnine, and all kinds of stuff to compete in the Tour de France.  This was all allowed, done openly in front of fans.  The sport of cycling discovered that you can't trust either the promoters or the athletes to set reasonable rules.  The promoters always want the most grueling event and record-breaking performances.  The athletes will do whatever it takes to get ahead.  Unless someone else steps in (like laws outside the sport or a strict governing body), it ends up being a competition about who can be the most reckless with their health.  Ultimately, that's self-defeating--it hurts the integrity of the game, and nobody wants to see their heroes sprouting extra eyes or tumors or losing brain function (the recent studies about concussions in football are scary).

I don't think the athletes are evil, either.  They're doing what makes sense, but it's not good for them or for the sport in the long term.  Its the sports bodies who have an obligation to enforce the rules against doping and to look out for the safety of the athletes, even if it means protecting them from themselves sometimes.  You go out and recruit a bunch of guys who will do whatever it takes to win, so you shouldn't be surprised if some of them try to push the limits and if you have to put a lot of effort into enforcing the rules.

That makes a lot of sense.

Offline xnewyawka

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Re: mark mcguire on steroids?
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2010, 10:18:27 AM »
The problem is if you have to juice to be a pro, then you have to juice in college.  And if you have to juice in college, then you have to juice in high school to get onto a college team.  And I think everybody agrees that teenagers are not equipped to make these decisions.  Most of them are probably deluded about their chances to make a career out of it besides. 

Cycling is a bit ahead of other sports in this, which is why cycling is so strict (absurdly so, even).  It wasn't that long ago that everything was allowed, and guys took amphetamines, strychnine, and all kinds of stuff to compete in the Tour de France.  This was all allowed, done openly in front of fans.  The sport of cycling discovered that you can't trust either the promoters or the athletes to set reasonable rules.  The promoters always want the most grueling event and record-breaking performances.  The athletes will do whatever it takes to get ahead.  Unless someone else steps in (like laws outside the sport or a strict governing body), it ends up being a competition about who can be the most reckless with their health.  Ultimately, that's self-defeating--it hurts the integrity of the game, and nobody wants to see their heroes sprouting extra eyes or tumors or losing brain function (the recent studies about concussions in football are scary).

I don't think the athletes are evil, either.  They're doing what makes sense, but it's not good for them or for the sport in the long term.  Its the sports bodies who have an obligation to enforce the rules against doping and to look out for the safety of the athletes, even if it means protecting them from themselves sometimes.  You go out and recruit a bunch of guys who will do whatever it takes to win, so you shouldn't be surprised if some of them try to push the limits and if you have to put a lot of effort into enforcing the rules.

Excellent points  (l8-) and I agree totally.